The Gender Non-binary debate.
Discussion
_dobbo_ said:
Rovinghawk said:
Close- my point is that this b
ks is recent but it was pointed out to me that there are older versions of similar bks.
A bit like old white people being unable to accept the world changing around them and so whinging about it is nothing new.ks is recent but it was pointed out to me that there are older versions of similar bks.
Why would you think that the colour of someones skin determines their opinions?
gregs656 said:
So on the one hand you dismiss the dogmatic ideology of religion.
Yes, although I totally support their right to have whatever imaginary friends they choose provided they leave me in peace.gregs656 said:
On the other you dismiss things which you find difficult to believe in by are supported by science.
I'll completely accept proven or evidential scientific fact. I accept that trans genders exist although I have no idea what drives someone to do it.
I don't accept the concept of "a woman trapped in a man's body" or similar- I consider this to be mental illness of some sort.
Blokes are blokes, women are women, some undergo a medical procedure to switch. 'Self-identifying' or similar is b
ks._dobbo_ said:
Someone can say an entire growing part of society is "bks" based on their sophisiticated analysis that "penis = man" but I'm the one not worth taking seriously?
You're doing it again, my comment, as you well know, related to this little tidbit.ks" based on their sophisiticated analysis that "penis = man" but I'm the one not worth taking seriously? "A bit like old white people being unable to accept the world changing around them and so whinging about it is nothing new."
I'll tell you what, have a go at writing out a few one sentence tropes the are unsubstantiated, steroetypical and generalising only this time include the word Black or Gay instead of White.
Now, when you've read them back and recoiled at your own vile, fascistic, prejudiced and needlessly judgemental quip see if a penny drops.
Rovinghawk said:
I accept that trans genders exist although I have no idea what drives someone to do it.
I don't accept the concept of "a woman trapped in a man's body" or similar- I consider this to be mental illness of some sort.
Blokes are blokes, women are women, some undergo a medical procedure to switch. 'Self-identifying' or similar is bks.
Ok, but if we accept your posit that gender is binary, but that you accept that it's ok for trans people to transition from one to the other, you're rather ignoring the fact that it takes years to achieve this. So I don't really understand where you stand on people undergoing that transition. I don't accept the concept of "a woman trapped in a man's body" or similar- I consider this to be mental illness of some sort.
Blokes are blokes, women are women, some undergo a medical procedure to switch. 'Self-identifying' or similar is b
ks.br d said:
Now, when you've read them back and recoiled at your own vile, fascistic, prejudiced and needlessly judgemental quip see if a penny drops.
When the level of debate is that gender identity is all "bks" then what can you expect? You're taking my reply in isolation outside of the context of the post I was replying to.Rovinghawk clearly isn't here to have a discussion about this, hence almost every post throwing around the term "b
ks" Rovinghawk is guilty of the very thing you're accusing me of. Hence my flippant "vile and judgemental" reply. I wonder why this upset you so much?
Rovinghawk said:
_dobbo_ said:
A bit like old white people being unable to accept the world changing around them and so whinging about it is nothing new.
FYI I'm mixed race. Do your politics/views allow you to insult mixed race the way you insult whites?
_dobbo_ said:
br d said:
Now, when you've read them back and recoiled at your own vile, fascistic, prejudiced and needlessly judgemental quip see if a penny drops.
When the level of debate is that gender identity is all "bks" then what can you expect? You're taking my reply in isolation outside of the context of the post I was replying to.Rovinghawk clearly isn't here to have a discussion about this, hence almost every post throwing around the term "b
ks" Rovinghawk is guilty of the very thing you're accusing me of. Hence my flippant "vile and judgemental" reply. I wonder why this upset you so much?
So being prejudiced is fine if it's in context of the discussion?
Swerve, swerve, swerve. Go on with your racism mate and keep feeling good about yourself.
You are a waste of time and I'm done.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Ok, but if we accept your posit that gender is binary, but that you accept that it's ok for trans people to transition from one to the other, you're rather ignoring the fact that it takes years to achieve this. So I don't really understand where you stand on people undergoing that transition.
To follow on from that CC, I know there are studies that can be batted about to fit the theory that being Trans is some sort of mental illness (which I don't agree with at all btw, I'm sure in any area of life where a person feels excluded or confused in some way there must be a rise in stress and mental health issues) do you feel that once the transition itself begins that's half the battle?I presume it's the struggle before the acceptance that is the most damaging? As someone who's been through this themselves (tell me to FO if this is getting too personal
) Was there a relief once you went into transition or is it still a nightmare?
_dobbo_ said:
daddy cool said:
His point is that if someone believes in one silly thing, its likely that many of the things the believe in are silly. HTH.
Labelling trans people as "silly" marks you out as a dinosaur. HTH.br d said:
To follow on from that CC, I know there are studies that can be batted about to fit the theory that being Trans is some sort of mental illness (which I don't agree with at all btw, I'm sure in any area of life where a person feels excluded or confused in some way there must be a rise in stress and mental health issues) do you feel that once the transition itself begins that's half the battle?
I presume it's the struggle before the acceptance that is the most damaging? As someone who's been through this themselves (tell me to FO if this is getting too personal ) Was there a relief once you went into transition or is it still a nightmare?
I think that in all debates you're going to get extremes. Most feminists just want men to be less sI presume it's the struggle before the acceptance that is the most damaging? As someone who's been through this themselves (tell me to FO if this is getting too personal
) Was there a relief once you went into transition or is it still a nightmare?tty towards them, for example, and I think most reasonable people would agree that women get the stty end of the stick, but that things are improving. In the same way, most trans people want others to just accept that they have a right to go about their lives without the constant debate of toilets (WTF is the obsession with toilets??) and the like. But also you get the radical man-hating feminists who give it all a bad name. You're going to get this in any situation when a previously-repressed minority starts to be less repressed. That's true of Civil Rights, Feminism, Gay Rights, and trans rights. But the extremists, and extreme views, shouldn't detract from the fact that most people just want the right to live their lives in peaceful enjoyment with acceptance and equality.
So, really, for me, I just want to get on with my life without this constant debate over whether or not I should be allowed to. If that makes any sense.
Noodle1982 said:
Dobbo has shown himself to be quite the bigoted individual over the last few pages.
Always the same with these type of liberals. Quick enough to throw labels at others and criticise their views while having a complete disregard for their own use of language.
Brilliant.
Nice try. Wasn't it you in another thread crying about how the racist card gets thrown around. Weird how it doesn't bother you here. Always the same with these type of liberals. Quick enough to throw labels at others and criticise their views while having a complete disregard for their own use of language.
Brilliant.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
I think that in all debates you're going to get extremes. Most feminists just want men to be less stty towards them, for example, and I think most reasonable people would agree that women get the stty end of the stick, but that things are improving. In the same way, most trans people want others to just accept that they have a right to go about their lives without the constant debate of toilets (WTF is the obsession with toilets??) and the like.
But also you get the radical man-hating feminists who give it all a bad name. You're going to get this in any situation when a previously-repressed minority starts to be less repressed. That's true of Civil Rights, Feminism, Gay Rights, and trans rights. But the extremists, and extreme views, shouldn't detract from the fact that most people just want the right to live their lives in peaceful enjoyment with acceptance and equality.
So, really, for me, I just want to get on with my life without this constant debate over whether or not I should be allowed to. If that makes any sense.
It does, and thanks for taking the time. I agree of course, any right thinking person would. Everybody should be allowed to live the way they feel most content if that doesn't impinge upon others rights. (Bentham?).tty towards them, for example, and I think most reasonable people would agree that women get the stty end of the stick, but that things are improving. In the same way, most trans people want others to just accept that they have a right to go about their lives without the constant debate of toilets (WTF is the obsession with toilets??) and the like. But also you get the radical man-hating feminists who give it all a bad name. You're going to get this in any situation when a previously-repressed minority starts to be less repressed. That's true of Civil Rights, Feminism, Gay Rights, and trans rights. But the extremists, and extreme views, shouldn't detract from the fact that most people just want the right to live their lives in peaceful enjoyment with acceptance and equality.
So, really, for me, I just want to get on with my life without this constant debate over whether or not I should be allowed to. If that makes any sense.
There always will be side issues because frankly this stuff is moving very quickly, I find some of it difficult but it's a process and - on paper anyway - we're a civilised society so it should all roughly work out!
I wish you luck with it. You're one of the best posters on PH in my book and you're stuff is always interesting. Not always right, but always interesting!
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff