The Future of Power Generation in Great Britain
Discussion
Have a read of this... It's in simple and easy to understand language, but I will point out for extra emphasis that the article says...
"A nuclear plant is expected to restart later today, and a coal plant tomorrow".
No idea how you can blame renewable power for the fact that coal, the most iconic of all thermal power sources, has shut down due to the cold, and nuclear power tends to be pretty reliable too! Their gas transmission infrastructure has shut down, and so the gas power plants are struggling for fuel.
Whatever opinion you have of renewable power, that is NOT the cause of the problems in Texas, and you may as well be shouting at the clouds for all the weight your argument has if that's what you believe.
BBC News - Texas weather: Are frozen wind turbines to blame for power cuts?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56085733
I will also say that the way it's been handled by the grid operator has been shocking. Water treatment plants, hospitals etc should be the very last things to be disconnected, but they've been shutting off huge areas rather than starting with industrial customers and working down a list of "non essential" users, to preserve power to the needy. The whole thing is a total embarrassment for the most energy rich state in the US!
"A nuclear plant is expected to restart later today, and a coal plant tomorrow".
No idea how you can blame renewable power for the fact that coal, the most iconic of all thermal power sources, has shut down due to the cold, and nuclear power tends to be pretty reliable too! Their gas transmission infrastructure has shut down, and so the gas power plants are struggling for fuel.
Whatever opinion you have of renewable power, that is NOT the cause of the problems in Texas, and you may as well be shouting at the clouds for all the weight your argument has if that's what you believe.
BBC News - Texas weather: Are frozen wind turbines to blame for power cuts?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56085733
I will also say that the way it's been handled by the grid operator has been shocking. Water treatment plants, hospitals etc should be the very last things to be disconnected, but they've been shutting off huge areas rather than starting with industrial customers and working down a list of "non essential" users, to preserve power to the needy. The whole thing is a total embarrassment for the most energy rich state in the US!
Condi said:
Have a read of this... It's in simple and easy to understand language, but I will point out for extra emphasis that the article says...
"A nuclear plant is expected to restart later today, and a coal plant tomorrow".
No idea how you can blame renewable power for the fact that coal, the most iconic of all thermal power sources, has shut down due to the cold, and nuclear power tends to be pretty reliable too!
Just found a quote online from the Owner/Operator of the nuclear plant and why it tripped:"A nuclear plant is expected to restart later today, and a coal plant tomorrow".
No idea how you can blame renewable power for the fact that coal, the most iconic of all thermal power sources, has shut down due to the cold, and nuclear power tends to be pretty reliable too!
"On Monday, Feb. 15, 2021, at 0537, an automatic reactor trip occurred at South Texas Project in Unit 1. The trip resulted from a loss of feedwater attributed to a cold weather-related failure of a pressure sensing lines to the feedwater pumps, causing a false signal, which in turn, caused the feedwater pump to trip. This event occurred in the secondary side of the plant (non-nuclear part of the unit). The reactor trip was a result of the feedwater pump trips. The primary side of the plant (nuclear side) is safe and secured.
STP values safety over production, so our first priority is the safety of our teammates, especially regarding the freezing weather and road conditions.
Secondarily our priority is the operating unit. Unit 2 is operating at 100 percent power. We evaluated Unit 2 and have confirmed that we do not have the same issues that caused the feedwater pump trips in Unit 1.
STP crew members are safely working to promptly return Unit 1 to the grid. We are validating the issues that caused the feedwater pumps to trip and will take the necessary actions to prevent reoccurrence.
STP has operated very reliably with only two reactor trips in the past several years. On May 1, 2016, the South Texas Project Unit 1 automatic reactor trip due to a main generator lock. Prior to that on Jan. 8, 2013, Unit 2 experienced an automatic reactor trip from full power caused by a main transformer fire."
Also found out that most of the Balance of Plant (BOP) in that plant and most in texas is not covered by buildings so is "outside" and the cold got to the sensor in this one. Probably because Texas is 99% of the time pretty hot/warm, so no covers required around the BOP to keep costs down.
My take is the possiblity of the loss of trace heating, if its fitted, then causing sensing lines to freeze/block thereby causing the trip by false alarm of feed water pressures.
Condi said:
Whatever opinion you have of renewable power, that is NOT the cause of the problems in Texas.
Yes. However, it's worth remembering that - largely due to a failure to have properly winterized turbines - they did lose about 50% of their renewable capacity too.https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2021/0...
It seems primarily a failure to invest, compounded with the lack of interconnects.
The question is how much do you spend for an event which might never happen? These are record low temperatures for Texas. In Europe then ice and cold weather are anticipated every year, and so we plan for it and spend the money to prepare the equipment. Somewhere usually hot, like Texas, doesn't have the same extreme cold and it's also very lightly regulated. Therefore developers don't spend the money on heaters and winterisation and in the cold weather the network fails.
Expect an increase in the regulation and oversight to try and prevent something similar happening again.
Expect an increase in the regulation and oversight to try and prevent something similar happening again.
Condi said:
The question is how much do you spend for an event which might never happen? These are record low temperatures for Texas. In Europe then ice and cold weather are anticipated every year, and so we plan for it and spend the money to prepare the equipment. Somewhere usually hot, like Texas, doesn't have the same extreme cold and it's also very lightly regulated. Therefore developers don't spend the money on heaters and winterisation and in the cold weather the network fails.
Expect an increase in the regulation and oversight to try and prevent something similar happening again.
Aren't some of the problems down to Texas not being joined to their national grid (so they can avoid federal oversight?) They're pretty much a closed system, so can't import power from other parts of the US unlike pretty much every other state.Expect an increase in the regulation and oversight to try and prevent something similar happening again.
rscott said:
Aren't some of the problems down to Texas not being joined to their national grid (so they can avoid federal oversight?) They're pretty much a closed system, so can't import power from other parts of the US unlike pretty much every other state.
Ummmm.... yes and no. The US has 3 grids, an East Coast grid and a West Coast grid, and Texas. Other areas of the US are having issues as well though, just nowhere near as severe as Texas. In general the more connected a grid is the more resilient it is, so it would have probably helped, but by how much I couldn't say. All their thermal stations are back online now, and blackouts are only in areas where the lines have come down.
robinessex said:
Something else to remember, never underestimate nature, it's infinitely more powerful than mear mortals and has a habit of biting you.
"This is known as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO), and the transition between its positive and negative phases can be very rapid. For example, Atlantic temperatures declined by 0.1ºC per decade from the 1940s to the 1970s. By comparison, global surface warming is estimated at 0.5ºC per century – a rate twice as slow." https://theconversation.com/the-atlantic-is-enteri...for me the main driver of the amo is the wax and wane of arctic sea ice. low sea ice extent, particularly in winter ,is a rapid cooling mechanism given the huge net energy/heat flow out of the arctic region to space for 10 months of the year.
PushedDover said:
Hell yeh brother - Bro dozer saves the day.Edit - does it have the generator because it’s a hybrid or it’s simply an option that any f150 could have?
Also - why not plug the generator into the charging port of the car - free driving...
Edited by eliot on Friday 19th February 12:08
PushedDover said:
Anti EV but links to petrol powered truck. Curious. Talksteer said:
Corvid-2020 said:
RR idea, take engine from boat, turn it right way around for land. E only, no heat.
UK SMR has literally nothing to do with a sub reactor, shares zero IP virtually every component is totally different in configuration.Source UK SMR designer, me.
SZC or Wylfa ?
I must say, factory build SMR's with several on one site with the first one producing income while the next is built seems like the way forward. We could have been producing power at Hinkley by now with SMR's (though the EPR will be a beast when its finally running).
Will refuelling include radial shuffling ? or would it be an all in/all out affair and who would build the fuel ie would BNFL be part of the process. What burnup are you projecting ?
eliot said:
Hell yeh brother - Bro dozer saves the day.
Edit - does it have the generator because it’s a hybrid or it’s simply an option that any f150 could have?
Also - why not plug the generator into the charging port of the car - free driving...
I assume the generator is there to charge the on-board batteries. Edit - does it have the generator because it’s a hybrid or it’s simply an option that any f150 could have?
Also - why not plug the generator into the charging port of the car - free driving...
Edited by eliot on Friday 19th February 12:08
If it's a hybrid do they need a charging port? I thought that was pure EVs only.
Gary C said:
Talksteer said:
Corvid-2020 said:
RR idea, take engine from boat, turn it right way around for land. E only, no heat.
UK SMR has literally nothing to do with a sub reactor, shares zero IP virtually every component is totally different in configuration.Source UK SMR designer, me.
SZC or Wylfa ?
I must say, factory build SMR's with several on one site with the first one producing income while the next is built seems like the way forward. We could have been producing power at Hinkley by now with SMR's (though the EPR will be a beast when its finally running).
Will refuelling include radial shuffling ? or would it be an all in/all out affair and who would build the fuel ie would BNFL be part of the process. What burnup are you projecting ?
I know, I was there got my first golden handshake (I do wonder about he clock they gave me, I hope it isn't a lump of MOX).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nuclear_Fuel...
The Westinghouse / Toshiba plant at Preston still makes some fuel I think though when I was last there in 2014 it was one of the creakiest ropy run down chemical plants I have seen. We were looking at a "repurposing study" and walked away from the job the extant plant was so knackered.
A lot of work going on in Derby. Perhaps the future fuel could come from there? Or the National Nuclear Laboratory on the Sellafield site? Otherwise abroad, Frenchies and Ruskies still make loads of Europes B/PWR fuels, think some of the UK reactors ran on French (Framatomme/Cogema?) fuel.
NNL have some good reports on SMRs, bit out of date though.
https://www.nnl.co.uk/innovation-science-and-techn...
BNFL Springfields used to stand for Bought Nuclear Fuel (price=) Lots! (And Build Now, Fund Later, and Broke Now, Fix Later / Limited). Didn't we as BNFL bankrupt Nuclear Electric / SE? If so I personally would apologise but I'm too busy counting my civil service pension pounds for apologies!
Did have a nice logo though, the 16 yellow nuclear fuel bars on a blue background and the site basic socks made excellent walking socks and the subsidised lunchtime canteens and two hour lunches down the Windmill Tavern outside the South gate, them were the days. Care free nuclear power, cash on the bars, there certainly was a substantial social support side back in the days.
Did have a nice logo though, the 16 yellow nuclear fuel bars on a blue background and the site basic socks made excellent walking socks and the subsidised lunchtime canteens and two hour lunches down the Windmill Tavern outside the South gate, them were the days. Care free nuclear power, cash on the bars, there certainly was a substantial social support side back in the days.
Corvid-2020 said:
BNFL Springfields used to stand for Bought Nuclear Fuel (price=) Lots! (And Build Now, Fund Later, and Broke Now, Fix Later / Limited). Didn't we as BNFL bankrupt Nuclear Electric / SE? If so I personally would apologise but I'm too busy counting my civil service pension pounds for apologies!
Did have a nice logo though, the 16 yellow nuclear fuel bars on a blue background and the site basic socks made excellent walking socks and the subsidised lunchtime canteens and two hour lunches down the Windmill Tavern outside the South gate, them were the days. Care free nuclear power, cash on the bars, there certainly was a substantial social support side back in the days.
Our liabilities brought down Nuclear Electric. Wholesale electricity prices dropped to a point and we technically bankrupt but still working really on an old nationalised industry way of robbing Peter to pay Paul and fuel was a bit expensive Did have a nice logo though, the 16 yellow nuclear fuel bars on a blue background and the site basic socks made excellent walking socks and the subsidised lunchtime canteens and two hour lunches down the Windmill Tavern outside the South gate, them were the days. Care free nuclear power, cash on the bars, there certainly was a substantial social support side back in the days.
Before the CNC became a reality and all nuclear sites got armed police, the Springfield's armed guards always looked a bit, err, relaxed
Pension pounds
, just got my transfer value from the CEGB scheme and now seriously considering retiring next year at 55 Gary C said:
Pension pounds , just got my transfer value from the CEGB scheme and now seriously considering retiring next year at 55
Meanwhile for the rest of EDF staff the company are trying desperatly to change the pension scheme (again) because the liabilities are costing too much money. Looks like the defined benefit will vanish, ironically when stocks and shares have delivered superb returns, but the pension's investments in bonds and safe allocations have underdelivered. , just got my transfer value from the CEGB scheme and now seriously considering retiring next year at 55 Condi said:
Gary C said:
Pension pounds , just got my transfer value from the CEGB scheme and now seriously considering retiring next year at 55
Meanwhile for the rest of EDF staff the company are trying desperatly to change the pension scheme (again) because the liabilities are costing too much money. Looks like the defined benefit will vanish, ironically when stocks and shares have delivered superb returns, but the pension's investments in bonds and safe allocations have underdelivered. , just got my transfer value from the CEGB scheme and now seriously considering retiring next year at 55 When we were privatised, the Unions made an agreement with the government not to oppose privatisation provided that an act of Parliament was passed to protect the pensions those of us who were working for the nationalised industry at the time. Its only right that that is honoured.
EDF took on NE/BE knowing this but even then they changed things for everyone including protected persons by 'interpreting' the word salary differently from everyone else.
The current pension reform is, as I say, difficult. I do benefit from the old scheme and am happy about that, what can I say
BTW have you ever answered the phones on the shift trading desk ?
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