Explosions reported in Manchester?

[Countdown]

PurpleAki said:

Are you angry with the bomber?

What a stupid question. I'm extremely angry. He's killed 22 people and injured countless more. That's 22 families who are never going to see somebody they cared about again, they've not had a chance to say goodbye, for the rest of their lives they'll be looking back, picking over every minute they spent with them watching them grow up, remembering brithdays, Christmas, first day at school, and hating themselves for every stupid petty argument they had, wishing that they just had another chance to say sorry.

And (looking at some of the comments on here) he's managed to inflame a lot of hate directed towards muslims, which is pretty much bang on what ISIS would hope to achieve. But hey, not to worry. Far more important that you score some stupid internet points.

[Alpinestars]

bhstewie said:

Alpinestars said:

I bloody hope not.

Controlled explosion as they've arrested someone else.

Thanks. Does that mean there was another device?

[bitchstewie]

Alpinestars said:

Thanks. Does that mean there was another device?

No idea I'm just picking up what's on the BBC and other sites that says it's a Police operation.

[PurpleAki]

Countdown said:

What a stupid question. I'm extremely angry. He's killed 22 people and injured countless more. That's 22 families who are never going to see somebody they cared about again, they've not had a chance to say goodbye, for the rest of their lives they'll be looking back, picking over every minute they spent with them watching them grow up, remembering brithdays, Christmas, first day at school, and hating themselves for every stupid petty argument they had, wishing that they just had another chance to say sorry.

And (looking at some of the comments on here) he's managed to inflame a lot of hate directed towards muslims, which is pretty much bang on what ISIS would hope to achieve. But hey, not to worry. Far more important that you score some stupid internet points.

Sigh.

You have posted far more than me on this thread.

You were doing ok there until you starting sounding like an infant with your last two sentences.

[ferrisbueller]

Cobnapint said:

ferrisbueller said:

No.

It could be argued that the biggest issue in Afghanistan now is the completely corrupt society fuelled by, you guessed it, US cash injection. And a burgeoning opium trade. Both sources of income have been hived off into the pockets of tribal warlords.

So it's the fault of the US for sticking the cash in an attempt to bring a bit of civility to the place, educate, rebuild and get Afghanistan back on its feet - not the hyper corrupt Hamid Karzai, his officials and local Afghan elders for stealing it and letting the country rot in front of their eyes.

This wasn't the first go the west has had at "fixing" Afghanistan. I'm not entirely sure the situation was fully understood and objectives clear before we went in this time around. We certainly seem to have pulled out before the job was finished and the country has spiralled again under weak, corrupt, leadership and the growth of extremism given the lack of opposition it now faces.

AIUI when we went in to Afghanistan we didn't know who the enemy was, and it remained unclear, and completely over simplified the complexities of existing issues and conflicts. As well as fighting the taliban we ended up in the midst of all the historical conflicts, too. And became embroiled in conflicts with all parties including, at times, those we were meant to be there to help.

I don't think it is fair to lump all tribal elders in with the corruption.

The US injected cash to drive the democratic process (and influence it). The cash wasn't controlled and became a key enabler for corruption. When that became the case, they threw more in.

[BigLion]

Countdown said:

BigLion said:

It is ironic in a way that the Muslims have historically been hell bent on global domination (for example, they tried to take India but the very small number of courageous Sikhs kicked their asses) but now despite having the population numbers are being controlled by smaller numberof westerners who have used money and intellect to achieve what they have.

Interesting how you talk about muslims but when somebody talks about Sikhs in the same fashion you get all upset......

Anyway your knowledge of history is about as accurate as your knolwedge of Khalistan. Pakistan never tried to take India. The first two Indo-Pak wars were in relation to Kashmir and the last one in relation to Bangladesh. Massive stupidity from the Pakistani government, it will take likely take decades for a decent system of governance and democracy to embed itself.

Your knowledge of Islam is about the same as your knowledge of history - I'm talking around the 18th century.

People can say what they like about whoever they like re Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Jews - I'm sorry if that doesn't sit well with you, but guess I'm funny in that when we have snack bars killing children that it makes me angry.

I cannot think of one major successful country in the Middle East - Islam is holding people and society back in the dark ages.

The quicker we can stop this religion spreading / practicing publically the better.

[plasticpig]

Countdown said:

Interesting how you talk about muslims but when somebody talks about Sikhs in the same fashion you get all upset......

Anyway your knowledge of history is about as accurate as your knolwedge of Khalistan. Pakistan never tried to take India. The first two Indo-Pak wars were in relation to Kashmir and the last one in relation to Bangladesh. Massive stupidity from the Pakistani government, it will take likely take decades for a decent system of governance and democracy to embed itself.

I think you will find his history is roughly correct. Mid 18th century though rather than recent history.

[ferrisbueller]

BigLion said:

Islam is holding people and society back in the dark ages.

The quicker we can stop this religion spreading / practicing publically the better.

To be clear then, you're saying Islam should be outlawed?

[Burwood]

ferrisbueller said:

BigLion said:

Islam is holding people and society back in the dark ages.

The quicker we can stop this religion spreading / practicing publically the better.

To be clear then, you're saying Islam should be outlawed?

and you wonder why these threads get bitter. You make very valid points. The other poster is angry as is understandable. The facts as they stand do not paint Islam in a good light. You can refute that all you want.

[skyrover]

BigLion said:

I cannot think of one major successful country in the Middle East - Islam is holding people and society back in the dark ages.

Well there is Israel... oh and Persia was pretty successful until Islam came along.

[SystemParanoia]

ferrisbueller said:

BigLion said:

Islam is holding people and society back in the dark ages.

The quicker we can stop this religion spreading / practicing publically the better.

To be clear then, you're saying Islam should be outlawed?

no, just all religion for the sake of equality

[Countdown]

BigLion said:

Your knowledge of Islam is about the same as your knowledge of history - I'm talking around the 18th century.

Ah right - so that's after approximately 600 years during which Indian was ruled by Muslims? And just before the British got there.....

My mistake.

[ferrisbueller]

Burwood said:

ferrisbueller said:

BigLion said:

Islam is holding people and society back in the dark ages.

The quicker we can stop this religion spreading / practicing publically the better.

To be clear then, you're saying Islam should be outlawed?

and you wonder why these threads get bitter. You make very valid points. The other poster is angry as is understandable. The facts as they stand do not paint Islam in a good light. You can refute that all you want.

Don't understand your post. I just asked the other poster to clarify his point.

[Cobnapint]

Countdown said:

It was "doing something" that turned Afghanistan into what it is now. have you not read anybody else's posts or links?

To give you another example - do you remember Typhoons bombing Libya? And do you know where Abedi came from?

So Libya was at peace before the RAF went in to help stop an expected massacre in Misrata was it? Must have missed that one.

And yes, Abedi's parents were from Libya. His father fought against Gaddafi so you would have thought he'd got the email about who's side we were on.

[anonymous-user]

BigLion said:

Problem is the Muslims in the Middle East don't know how to govern themselves. Look at the situation of Pakistan - massively failed state (I'll put that as ME). As India prospers in the region and becoming an economic super power, Pakistan doesn't even have any real government infrastructure and is breeding ground for the snack bars.

Honestly, the whole Middle East is as backwards as you can get - they need hand holding otherwise they would be in an even bigger mess of secetarian violence than they are now.

Indians are coming over to Silicon Valley and the like and revolutionising the IT world, whereas on the other hand you have snack bars blowing themselves up.

It is ironic in a way that the Muslims have historically been hell bent on global domination (for example, they tried to take India but the very small number of courageous Sikhs kicked their asses) but now despite having the population numbers are being controlled by smaller numberof westerners who have used money and intellect to achieve what they have.

Swiss cheese sorry.

The middle east? You do realise that the UAE is now one of the most innovative countries in the world, don't you?

The middle east is quite a large place. Oman? Azerbaijan? Kuwait? Saudi? Qatar? All functioning stable nations. Yemen, Iraq and Syria... obviously not.

Is the west so stable? 10 years ago the United states and subsequently the UK caused a global recession on a scale never before seen and likely won't be seen again in our lifetime. (I hope to fk) Brexit? etc etc

Do you realise how many Muslims there are in India?

Do you realise how many Muslims there are throughout the world, NOT just the middle east? Asia has a large % of Muslims.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

What a stupid question. I'm extremely angry. He's killed 22 people and injured countless more. That's 22 families who are never going to see somebody they cared about again, they've not had a chance to say goodbye, for the rest of their lives they'll be looking back, picking over every minute they spent with them watching them grow up, remembering brithdays, Christmas, first day at school, and hating themselves for every stupid petty argument they had, wishing that they just had another chance to say sorry.

And (looking at some of the comments on here) he's managed to inflame a lot of hate directed towards muslims, which is pretty much bang on what ISIS would hope to achieve. But hey, not to worry. Far more important that you score some stupid internet points.

Countdown said:

techiedave said:

Clue there is real anger in Lancashire at the moment. Those who know why I am here may appreciate why

I'm in Lancashire as well. Lived/studied/worked here for over 40 years. There is anger here (of course there is, that's a natural reaction) but from what I can see (a) most people know who the terrorists are and (b) they know that these attacks have fk all to do with the majority of muslims.

There are some posters on here who absolutely, desperately, need, to conflate the majority of muslims who live in this country without any issues, with the small number who kill innocent people. Then they can stand back smugly and say "Look! We're not racist! they're ALL the same as each other! Send them all back/deport them/ nuke them". And anybody who doesn't agree with them is a lefty handwringing "liberal"....

I do not live or work here though I did in the past. We are here to visit my brother and sister in law. They were close friends with a lady who was killed in this incident. We had met her several times at barbeques and get togethers she and my wife had a lot in common as they both work in the education system. What I remember of the lady who died is that she was full of life and love and thrashed me at cards several times on 3 occasions.
You forgot to include that the relatives are unable to plan their final goodbyes as they do not know when their loved ones bodies will be released to them. Your mention of anger being a natural reaction and your assertion about what you can see is of course relevant to yourself and your circumstances.
I have no particular truck with you yourself and to be fair I didn't like the way you were being goaded a long many pages back to appear. I said as much then.Unfortunately some posters on here plainly have a mission to antagonise as much as possible ( some seem to delight in it and effectively enjoy winding up people hence why I will not respond to their goading manner) and it seems that one has at least 2 user names the other not currently being used but ending in knee the writing style is similar and the phrasing is the same in some instances.
Look after yourself and your family but respect that people will have differing views to you and try and understand that some people have had enough of what appears to be an amount of people who hate us that are are enjoying freedoms whilst conspiring to bomb us. Again try and understand that some people feel that these people on these lists should not be enjoying the freedoms they seem to hate but exploit and that some people think that these people need rounding up. Expect to hear a lot more of that in coming weeks
The "united front" that was shown across all media last week is not as united as you might think already some families of the murdered are raising questions and one in particular does not wish to be part of what they call a circus.
Take care and live long and healthily I believe you have daughters (forgive me if that's incorrect) I am sure you love them as much as we love our 2 wonderful clever girls. We have always been proud of them and at times worried as they have been away from home. We worry so much more now particularly as our eldest goes to as many concerts as she can.

[amusingduck]

DoubleTime said:

The middle east? You do realise that the UAE is now one of the most innovative countries in the world, don't you?

Flogging is a punishment for criminal offences such as adultery, premarital sex and alcohol consumption.[5][6] Due to Sharia courts, flogging is legal with sentences ranging from 80 to 200 lashes.[5][7][8] Verbal abuse pertaining to a person's sexual honour is illegal and punishable by 80 lashes.

Apostasy is a crime punishable by death in the UAE.[58][59]

Emirati women must receive permission from male guardian to marry and remarry.[63] The requirement is derived from Sharia, and has been federal law since 2005.[63] In all emirates, it is illegal for Muslim women to marry non-Muslims.[64]

Homosexuality is illegal and a capital offense in the UAE.[65][66] An Emirati man accused of a "gay handshake" was put on trial in 2014.[66]

Kissing in some public places is illegal and could result in deportation. [67]

Since 2011, the UAE government has increasingly carried out forced disappearances.[96][1][2][97][98][99] Many foreign nationals and Emirati citizens have been arrested and abducted by the state, the UAE government denies these people are being held (to conceal their whereabouts), placing these people outside the protection of the law.[94][1][100] According to Human Rights Watch, the reports of forced disappearance and torture in the UAE are of grave concern.[2]

There's much more, too.

How innovative do they need to be to overlook their abysmal human rights record?

[Burwood]

The reason the UAE is more of a success is firstly, stability. They got rid of the nut jobs. Huge amounts of cash and education in the sciences.

The other backward ME countries do not have stability coupled with a focus on Shiria and religion as education. The populace is simply untalented in a commercial sense.

[Countdown]

techiedave said:

I do not live or work here though I did in the past. We are here to visit my brother and sister in law. They were close friends with a lady who was killed in this incident. We had met her several times at barbeques and get togethers she and my wife had a lot in common as they both work in the education system. What I remember of the lady who died is that she was full of life and love and thrashed me at cards several times on 3 occasions.

I’m really sorry to hear that. It’s never easy losing somebody but to lose somebody in circumstances like these is awful,

techiedave said:

Look after yourself and your family but respect that people will have differing views to you and try and understand that some people have had enough of what appears to be an amount of people who hate us that are are enjoying freedoms whilst conspiring to bomb us. Again try and understand that some people feel that these people on these lists should not be enjoying the freedoms they seem to hate but exploit and that some people think that these people need rounding up. Expect to hear a lot more of that in coming weeks.

This is something that some friends were talking about. I think many muslims have reached the stage that if this is what is needed then so be it. Will it solve the problem? I don’t think so. You/we are never going to be able to stop every single lunatic from getting through and killing people. However the government needs to take reasonable, proportionate steps to improve security,. And if it helps to stop people attacking my wife and kids when they are out, just because they're muslim, then it's probably the lesser of two evils.

techiedave said:

The "united front" that was shown across all media last week is not as united as you might think already some families of the murdered are raising questions and one in particular does not wish to be part of what they call a circus.

Completely understandable to feel like that. It’s not what muslims in the UK want but exactly what ISIS want.

techiedave said:

Take care and live long and healthily I believe you have daughters (forgive me if that's incorrect) I am sure you love them as much as we love our 2 wonderful clever girls. We have always been proud of them and at times worried as they have been away from home. We worry so much more now particularly as our eldest goes to as many concerts as she can.

I do, and they also go to concerts at the MEN occasionally. (I’m guessing that Mum is going to say “No” to any trips in the near future but they can argue about that amongst themselves). Unfortunately parents never ever stop worrying…best wishes to you and yours.

[Alpinestars]

techiedave said:

I do not live or work here though I did in the past. We are here to visit my brother and sister in law. They were close friends with a lady who was killed in this incident. We had met her several times at barbeques and get togethers she and my wife had a lot in common as they both work in the education system. What I remember of the lady who died is that she was full of life and love and thrashed me at cards several times on 3 occasions.
You forgot to include that the relatives are unable to plan their final goodbyes as they do not know when their loved ones bodies will be released to them. Your mention of anger being a natural reaction and your assertion about what you can see is of course relevant to yourself and your circumstances.
I have no particular truck with you yourself and to be fair I didn't like the way you were being goaded a long many pages back to appear. I said as much then.Unfortunately some posters on here plainly have a mission to antagonise as much as possible ( some seem to delight in it and effectively enjoy winding up people hence why I will not respond to their goading manner) and it seems that one has at least 2 user names the other not currently being used but ending in knee the writing style is similar and the phrasing is the same in some instances.
Look after yourself and your family but respect that people will have differing views to you and try and understand that some people have had enough of what appears to be an amount of people who hate us that are are enjoying freedoms whilst conspiring to bomb us. Again try and understand that some people feel that these people on these lists should not be enjoying the freedoms they seem to hate but exploit and that some people think that these people need rounding up. Expect to hear a lot more of that in coming weeks
The "united front" that was shown across all media last week is not as united as you might think already some families of the murdered are raising questions and one in particular does not wish to be part of what they call a circus.
Take care and live long and healthily I believe you have daughters (forgive me if that's incorrect) I am sure you love them as much as we love our 2 wonderful clever girls. We have always been proud of them and at times worried as they have been away from home. We worry so much more now particularly as our eldest goes to as many concerts as she can.

Good post.