Explosions reported in Manchester?
Discussion
FrankAbagnale said:
PoleDriver said:
e21Mark said:
Does anyone know why Twitter etc allow terrorists to have accounts?
Because some of those naughty scallywags didn't tick the 'are you a terrorist' box?
Trabi601 said:
No Catholics in there? Whilst they generally used to give a warning to cause material and not human damage... the only other difference is that they were sensible enough not to blow themselves up in the process.
History being rewritten by those too young to remember the IRA. Their bombs killed innocents. They were responsible for the majority of deaths in NI during the trouble.Oh and they had suicide tactics. Bobby Sands was one.
jakesmith said:
Communications technology has progressed exponentially in an incredibly short amount of time
Without being able to read most of what is being sent via all these new digital channels, secret services may as well not be able to read any of it
They also need to be able to go back in time if they find a lead to see what they have been doing up to that point to assess a potential threat
The result is inevitably mass data collection
Before communications technology reached it's current level terrorists still communicated. They chatted in cafes or used landlines, or sent letters to each other. The security services managed without bugging every café keeping records of every phonecall or opening every letter.Without being able to read most of what is being sent via all these new digital channels, secret services may as well not be able to read any of it
They also need to be able to go back in time if they find a lead to see what they have been doing up to that point to assess a potential threat
The result is inevitably mass data collection
The Hatton Garden gang made their plans in a pub, Nobody is suggesting every landlord must tape every conversation their customers have and keep them for years in case the authorities find it useful. So why is it inevitable for internet comms?
jdw100 said:
jakesmith said:
Sadly society is full of people who are weak, easily lead / persuaded. Just look at the number of people who get conned out of their life savings in those romance scams etc. You read about them in the papers and think 'who in their right mind could fall for such a scam and send all their savings off to someone they haven't met', or invest in some business or other scam
Well anecdotally the back stories of these terrorists are often characterised by some of the following - disgruntled with society, a misfit, not many friends, their life lacks meaning or is mundane - often this is down to their own background, lack of talent or drive, or circumstances that are within or without their control. If they happen to be weak and gullible as per above, they are ripe for falling under the influence of an evil manipulator, whether at a place of worship, online, in prison etc - ie at an unregulated space (as prisons are at present).
They know what they are doing but are obviously utterly deluded about why they are doing it.
As a horrified member of public it is easy to get drawn down the path of hating not just this toxic ideology, but its associated religion too. That is exactly what the manipulators want though so you play into their hands if you do. They seek to divide society, create hatred and unrest.
Just to add, I am utterly disguised by this act and the whole ideology that spawned it, I am only offering my interpretation of how it comes about, there is zero excuse and people caught being involved in this should receive full life sentences rather thn the 8-10 years they seem to get. If they want to destroy society they should not get to enjoy it again.
I've had some interesting discussions with people that have worked with disaffected youth from Luton.Well anecdotally the back stories of these terrorists are often characterised by some of the following - disgruntled with society, a misfit, not many friends, their life lacks meaning or is mundane - often this is down to their own background, lack of talent or drive, or circumstances that are within or without their control. If they happen to be weak and gullible as per above, they are ripe for falling under the influence of an evil manipulator, whether at a place of worship, online, in prison etc - ie at an unregulated space (as prisons are at present).
They know what they are doing but are obviously utterly deluded about why they are doing it.
As a horrified member of public it is easy to get drawn down the path of hating not just this toxic ideology, but its associated religion too. That is exactly what the manipulators want though so you play into their hands if you do. They seek to divide society, create hatred and unrest.
Just to add, I am utterly disguised by this act and the whole ideology that spawned it, I am only offering my interpretation of how it comes about, there is zero excuse and people caught being involved in this should receive full life sentences rather thn the 8-10 years they seem to get. If they want to destroy society they should not get to enjoy it again.
Looking at the guys that went (or tried to go) to join ISIS. A lot of them were not allowed girlfriends in the UK or to have friends outside the Muslim community. They didn't do well at school and were facing the prospect of life working in a phone shop or similar before marrying someone at the behest of their parents.
They feel that the world is against them and that the UK is unfair and racist, life on the whole is not looking good for them.
Offer some of these guys the chance to travel to a foreign land, dress in cool black paramilitary outfits, get trained in weapons (just like in their computer games) have a pistol in a shoulder holster and fight with people who are their brothers against all that is unfair. They can have a wife that they choose as well, get paid a decent wage and be seen as a hero - well I imagine as lot of disafffected young guys would jump at this kind of opportunity.
Quite a few have taken up this offer, as we know. Some immediately regret it as they have little understanding of what happens in a battle (outside of the computer version) or what it takes to live in combat conditions. However some of them it's been the making of, same as for other guys who join the army and thrive on the discipline etc.
I was told that many of these lads had almost zero understanding of the geopolitics behind their cause beyond 'they're killing our brothers and the West hates Muslims'.
V8 Fettler said:
Ban all religion
Brilliant idea. Glad someone has put some real thought in to a solution. We'll put a note round saying that all religions have been banned. Then those people with deeply held beliefs will I'm sure just say "oh well I'll have to give that up then, maybe I'll take up stamp collecting instead".
Ooh maybe we should just ban terrorist acts instead? Has anyone thought of that?
chilistrucker said:
Well some big events up and coming, rugby, F.A Cup, plenty of gigs on at o2 for the foreseeable future, Guns and Roses next month at the London stadium all are possible targets I guess for the fanatics.
I think the champions league final in Cardiff is at risk. The very nature of what makes Cardiff a great sporting venue is what makes it vulnerable. Stadium in the city centre and thousands thronging the streets in a party mood. The organisers have also built a tent village on a city park to house all the fans making the trip.There are also known individuals from Cardiff who have gone to fight for Isis in Syria so there are links.
I pray it all goes smoothly.
jdw100 said:
I've had some interesting discussions with people that have worked with disaffected youth from Luton.
Looking at the guys that went (or tried to go) to join ISIS. A lot of them were not allowed girlfriends in the UK or to have friends outside the Muslim community. They didn't do well at school and were facing the prospect of life working in a phone shop or similar before marrying someone at the behest of their parents.
They feel that the world is against them and that the UK is unfair and racist, life on the whole is not looking good for them.
Offer some of these guys the chance to travel to a foreign land, dress in cool black paramilitary outfits, get trained in weapons (just like in their computer games) have a pistol in a shoulder holster and fight with people who are their brothers against all that is unfair. They can have a wife that they choose as well, get paid a decent wage and be seen as a hero - well I imagine as lot of disafffected young guys would jump at this kind of opportunity.
Quite a few have taken up this offer, as we know. Some immediately regret it as they have little understanding of what happens in a battle (outside of the computer version) or what it takes to live in combat conditions. However some of them it's been the making of, same as for other guys who join the army and thrive on the discipline etc.
I was told that many of these lads had almost zero understanding of the geopolitics behind their cause beyond 'they're killing our brothers and the West hates Muslims'.
Whilst what you say makes sense;Looking at the guys that went (or tried to go) to join ISIS. A lot of them were not allowed girlfriends in the UK or to have friends outside the Muslim community. They didn't do well at school and were facing the prospect of life working in a phone shop or similar before marrying someone at the behest of their parents.
They feel that the world is against them and that the UK is unfair and racist, life on the whole is not looking good for them.
Offer some of these guys the chance to travel to a foreign land, dress in cool black paramilitary outfits, get trained in weapons (just like in their computer games) have a pistol in a shoulder holster and fight with people who are their brothers against all that is unfair. They can have a wife that they choose as well, get paid a decent wage and be seen as a hero - well I imagine as lot of disafffected young guys would jump at this kind of opportunity.
Quite a few have taken up this offer, as we know. Some immediately regret it as they have little understanding of what happens in a battle (outside of the computer version) or what it takes to live in combat conditions. However some of them it's been the making of, same as for other guys who join the army and thrive on the discipline etc.
I was told that many of these lads had almost zero understanding of the geopolitics behind their cause beyond 'they're killing our brothers and the West hates Muslims'.
Not be allowed a girlfriend isn't society's fault
Not have non muslim friends isn't society's fault
Being forced to marry your cousin isn't society's fault
Having Islam rammed down your throat from the age of 6 isn't society's fault either.
That would be their parents / the wider muslim community, these young people live a very similar religion controlled life as they would Back in the old country, which is 100% their fault.
It is easier to point the finger at the racist UK than look at their own failings.
So far everything is going according to the playbook.
Terrorist attack.
Huge media coverage
Lots of politicians using it to get their face on TV
Lessons will be learned
Lone Wolf.
Religion of peace
Only a small minority
What a wonderful multi cultural place this ia
Known to security services
Candle light vigils
.#pray for.....
Je suit many
Change your facebook photo to add filter
Rinse and repeat
And what really boiled my pi55 was the GMP spokesman on LBC who went to great lengths to tell ethnic groups that if they feel threatened or experience hate, they should report it to the police immediately.
Won't the police by a bit busy investigating 22 deaths or does a ethnic minorities feeling trump that?
ETA. I forgot about lighting up a building.
Very important to shine lights on a big public building
Terrorist attack.
Huge media coverage
Lots of politicians using it to get their face on TV
Lessons will be learned
Lone Wolf.
Religion of peace
Only a small minority
What a wonderful multi cultural place this ia
Known to security services
Candle light vigils
.#pray for.....
Je suit many
Change your facebook photo to add filter
Rinse and repeat
And what really boiled my pi55 was the GMP spokesman on LBC who went to great lengths to tell ethnic groups that if they feel threatened or experience hate, they should report it to the police immediately.
Won't the police by a bit busy investigating 22 deaths or does a ethnic minorities feeling trump that?
ETA. I forgot about lighting up a building.
Very important to shine lights on a big public building
Edited by Jazzy Jag on Wednesday 24th May 07:19
jdw100 said:
I've had some interesting discussions with people that have worked with disaffected youth from Luton.
Looking at the guys that went (or tried to go) to join ISIS. A lot of them were not allowed girlfriends in the UK or to have friends outside the Muslim community. They didn't do well at school and were facing the prospect of life working in a phone shop or similar before marrying someone at the behest of their parents.
They feel that the world is against them and that the UK is unfair and racist, life on the whole is not looking good for them.
Offer some of these guys the chance to travel to a foreign land, dress in cool black paramilitary outfits, get trained in weapons (just like in their computer games) have a pistol in a shoulder holster and fight with people who are their brothers against all that is unfair. They can have a wife that they choose as well, get paid a decent wage and be seen as a hero - well I imagine as lot of disafffected young guys would jump at this kind of opportunity.
Quite a few have taken up this offer, as we know. Some immediately regret it as they have little understanding of what happens in a battle (outside of the computer version) or what it takes to live in combat conditions. However some of them it's been the making of, same as for other guys who join the army and thrive on the discipline etc.
I was told that many of these lads had almost zero understanding of the geopolitics behind their cause beyond 'they're killing our brothers and the West hates Muslims'.
The BASIC building blocks for their path is however the religion they believe in. As a system to live by, the Muslim faith even in its "lite" form, is the base that this type of radicalisation can grow from. It is a controlling, dictatoral and aggressive teaching. It is not at all surprising that it can be expolited with such ease to produce the doctrins that result in these sickening acts.Looking at the guys that went (or tried to go) to join ISIS. A lot of them were not allowed girlfriends in the UK or to have friends outside the Muslim community. They didn't do well at school and were facing the prospect of life working in a phone shop or similar before marrying someone at the behest of their parents.
They feel that the world is against them and that the UK is unfair and racist, life on the whole is not looking good for them.
Offer some of these guys the chance to travel to a foreign land, dress in cool black paramilitary outfits, get trained in weapons (just like in their computer games) have a pistol in a shoulder holster and fight with people who are their brothers against all that is unfair. They can have a wife that they choose as well, get paid a decent wage and be seen as a hero - well I imagine as lot of disafffected young guys would jump at this kind of opportunity.
Quite a few have taken up this offer, as we know. Some immediately regret it as they have little understanding of what happens in a battle (outside of the computer version) or what it takes to live in combat conditions. However some of them it's been the making of, same as for other guys who join the army and thrive on the discipline etc.
I was told that many of these lads had almost zero understanding of the geopolitics behind their cause beyond 'they're killing our brothers and the West hates Muslims'.
It's been said before. I despair at the incidence you hear 'he was known to security services'. The public should be demanding that the government allocate significant resources to security services. Apparently the device was highly sophisticated and used materials difficult to procure. His own family informed on him several times. FFS what will it take to get these people under 24/7 surveillance?
From the Guardian article about the alleged perp in this case, it says that some in the Libyan Community and his Mosque say that they cannot believe it , he was such a shy guy. However, the Imman reportedly told them that in 2015 he did a very anti Isis sermon about the sanctity of life, and noticed this guy giving him hateful looks. There was a.so a petition that he signed, (with others) criticising the speech, and so worried were some at the Mosque about the reaction from him, they put some some big guys next to him, so concerned that he would attack the Imman.
So, if this is true, what was done about it? This guy was known to the security services, but as a peripeheral guy, however, for 18 months he has harboured some seemingly anti integration feelings that were noted.
Also, the father reported to be in recently Tripoli now, described as an odd job man around Manchester. So how does that work then? Fell a country, claim asylum here, get housed, do "odd jobs" and yet 20 years later, just clear off back to Tripoli and leave kids running amok here.
Selfish bunch of f
kers it sounds like to me.
So, if this is true, what was done about it? This guy was known to the security services, but as a peripeheral guy, however, for 18 months he has harboured some seemingly anti integration feelings that were noted.
Also, the father reported to be in recently Tripoli now, described as an odd job man around Manchester. So how does that work then? Fell a country, claim asylum here, get housed, do "odd jobs" and yet 20 years later, just clear off back to Tripoli and leave kids running amok here.
Selfish bunch of f
kers it sounds like to me. Burwood said:
It's been said before. I despair at the incidence you hear 'he was known to security services'. The public should be demanding that the government allocate significant resources to security services. Apparently the device was highly sophisticated and used materials difficult to procure. His own family informed on him several times. FFS what will it take to get these people under 24/7 surveillance?
Who was Home Office minister until very recently? It'll take strong and stable leader.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Or it's clearly relevant. We, like it or not, live in a very multicultural society, that's not going to change, marginalising immigrants because of terrorists will only make things worse.I don't have the answer to this complex problem, I despise religion in all forms especially the ones that brainwash young children (pretty much all of them) but I fear we are stuck with it
jjlynn27 said:
Burwood said:
It's been said before. I despair at the incidence you hear 'he was known to security services'. The public should be demanding that the government allocate significant resources to security services. Apparently the device was highly sophisticated and used materials difficult to procure. His own family informed on him several times. FFS what will it take to get these people under 24/7 surveillance?
Who was Home Office minister until very recently? It'll take strong and stable leader.
Burwood said:
jjlynn27 said:
Burwood said:
It's been said before. I despair at the incidence you hear 'he was known to security services'. The public should be demanding that the government allocate significant resources to security services. Apparently the device was highly sophisticated and used materials difficult to procure. His own family informed on him several times. FFS what will it take to get these people under 24/7 surveillance?
Who was Home Office minister until very recently? It'll take strong and stable leader.If that's the best reason to have May to lead us, we are pretty f
ked up. There must be someone better within Cons. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff