NHS spending

[Sheepshanks]

Puggit said:

I've found a quick saving, right here:

It's an NHS England requirement. No doubt somebody can justify it, but the implementation cost across the whole of NHS England must be huge.

[TooMany2cvs]

Sheepshanks said:

Puggit said:

I've found a quick saving, right here:

It's an NHS England requirement. No doubt somebody can justify it, but the implementation cost across NHS England must be huge.

Damn sight cheaper than the legalities arising from even a single case of discrimination.

[Sheepshanks]

TooMany2cvs said:

Damn sight cheaper than the legalities arising from even a single case of discrimination.

There you go.

[Biker 1]

NHS has apparently been in a constant state of crisis since I can remember, whoever has been in government.

[The Don of Croy]

The NHS is a lovely idea, regrettably unaffordable, in a land of an ageing populus who don't want to hear the message their elected leaders aren't telling them.

What could possibly go wrong?

[sidicks]

The Don of Croy said:

The NHS is a lovely idea, regrettably unaffordable, in a land of an ageing populus who don't want to hear the message their elected leaders aren't telling them.

What could possibly go wrong?

I guess you could argue that the NHS, as originally envisaged when it was set up, would still be broadly affordable.

Unfortunately it is trying to do much more than that, with inevitable consequences, but none seems ready to admit the reality.

[TooMany2cvs]

sidicks said:

The Don of Croy said:

The NHS is a lovely idea, regrettably unaffordable, in a land of an ageing populus who don't want to hear the message their elected leaders aren't telling them.

What could possibly go wrong?

I guess you could argue that the NHS, as originally envisaged when it was set up, would still be broadly affordable.

Unfortunately it is trying to do much more than that, with inevitable consequences, but none seems ready to admit the reality.

That's basically my take on it.

You could just about keep a pound of mince alive with modern medical technology, if you threw enough money at it. Combine that with the piss-taking wastes of oxygen who phone ambulance because ickle Chazonce has a sniffle, and then stir gently with the halfwits who've wheeled their oxygen tanks and drips outside the door of the hospital for a fag...

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Personally I find it of huge concern that TM supports the Naylor Report, in an aim to prob up NHS funding - essentially selling off NHS land to the private sector (who I presume shall then rent it back to the NHS at god knows what cost)
Not that the NHS is slowly being privitised bite by bite or anything....

http://evolvepolitics.com/exposed-theresa-may-supp...

[TooMany2cvs]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Not that the NHS is slowly being privitised bite by bite or anything....

I can't say I'm very bothered by that.

Surely, it's a good thing for the NHS to get equal-quality services provided by somebody for a lower price? I mean, it's not as if the various NHS providers can't bid... So if a private company gets the work, then they MUST be better value, right?

Unless you're suggesting that the NHS are really, really st at deciding who to give the work to, perhaps even corrupt? If that's the case, then isn't that a fairly serious money-wasting problem WITHIN the NHS itself...?

[sidicks]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Personally I find it of huge concern that TM supports the Naylor Report, in an aim to prob up NHS funding - essentially selling off NHS land to the private sector (who I presume shall then rent it back to the NHS at god knows what cost)
Not that the NHS is slowly being privitised bite by bite or anything....

http://evolvepolitics.com/exposed-theresa-may-supp...

Who cares who provides the service as long as:

A) It is free for all at the point of use
B) it provides the best value for money for taxpayers

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

TooMany2cvs said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Not that the NHS is slowly being privitised bite by bite or anything....

I can't say I'm very bothered by that.

Surely, it's a good thing for the NHS to get equal-quality services provided by somebody for a lower price? I mean, it's not as if the various NHS providers can't bid... So if a private company gets the work, then they MUST be better value, right?

Unless you're suggesting that the NHS are really, really st at deciding who to give the work to, perhaps even corrupt? If that's the case, then isn't that a fairly serious money-wasting problem WITHIN the NHS itself...?

You can't see the issue with it? A set up which we have ALL funded, more than that a great institution of ours, being sold off at a discount for people to make a profit on?
You don't believe it's going to be pre-determined who it's sold to?

[Sheepshanks]

TooMany2cvs said:

Surely, it's a good thing for the NHS to get equal-quality services provided by somebody for a lower price?

Really it would be a bad thing - because it shouldn't be possible.

Maybe there are examples of where it works but there seem to be a lot where it doesn't and sometimes providers are walking away from contracts. One of my daughters is involved with one - she will always do the right thing by the patient but the commercial pressure is immense.

[sidicks]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

You can't see the issue with it? A set up which we have ALL funded, more than that a great institution of ours, being sold off at a discount for people to make a profit on?
You don't believe it's going to be pre-determined who it's sold to?

Most people haven't contributed on a net basis.
If the services can be provided more cheaply, what is the problem?

[sidicks]

Sheepshanks said:

Really it would be a bad thing - because it shouldn't be possible.

Maybe there are examples of where it works but there seem to be a lot where it doesn't and sometimes providers are walking away from contracts. One of my daughters is involved with one - she will always do the right thing by the patient but the commercial pressure is immense.

Because the NHS is so efficient? Did I miss a smilie somewhere?

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

I think this one neatly sums up Conservatives attitude to the NHS.

[jjlynn27]

sidicks said:

Because the NHS is so efficient? Did I miss a smilie somewhere?

NHS is comparatively exceptionally efficient. Why would you need a smilie?

[sidicks]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

I think this one neatly sums up Conservatives attitude to the NHS.

I think this sums up the attitude of some members of the ignorant left who like to make lots of claims about the Tories and the NHS, none of which stand up to scrutiny.

HTH

[TooMany2cvs]

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Not that the NHS is slowly being privitised bite by bite or anything....

I can't say I'm very bothered by that.

Surely, it's a good thing for the NHS to get equal-quality services provided by somebody for a lower price? I mean, it's not as if the various NHS providers can't bid... So if a private company gets the work, then they MUST be better value, right?

Unless you're suggesting that the NHS are really, really st at deciding who to give the work to, perhaps even corrupt? If that's the case, then isn't that a fairly serious money-wasting problem WITHIN the NHS itself...?

You can't see the issue with it? A set up which we have ALL funded, more than that a great institution of ours, being sold off at a discount for people to make a profit on?

It isn't being "sold off at a discount". It isn't being "sold off" at all.

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

You don't believe it's going to be pre-determined who it's sold to?

OK, so you ARE suggesting widespread corruption and ineptitude INSIDE THE NHS...

Look, it's clear that you're objecting on principle without actually understanding what you're objecting to. So, pay attention...

An NHS trust decides that they need, say, knee operations. So who's going to do it? The hospital's orthopaedic department itself can bid. A private hospital can bid. A private surgical firm can bid.

Now, what SHOULD be happening if the NHS procurement decision isn't corrupt and is competent, is that all of those submit their bids, and the trust decide who to give the contract to on the basis of quality and value.

If the hospital is cheapest and best quality - then it'll be done in the hospital. Great. But if they're expensive or poor quailty, then the work gets done CHEAPER AND BETTER ELSEWHERE! What's not to like about that?

Perhaps a GP has invested in sufficient facilities to be able to do minor operations - and they can bid on those. You do know that GP surgeries are private businesses, right?
Strange, isn't it, how nobody ever complains about the longest-standing and most widespread privatisation in the NHS - opticians, pharmacies, dentists and GPs...

[sidicks]

jjlynn27 said:

sidicks said:

Because the NHS is so efficient? Did I miss a smilie somewhere?

NHS is comparatively exceptionally efficient. Why would you need a smilie?

In some areas maybe.

[Sheepshanks]

jjlynn27 said:

sidicks said:

Because the NHS is so efficient? Did I miss a smilie somewhere?

NHS is comparatively exceptionally efficient. Why would you need a smilie?

Yes - there's a school of thought that the NHS's problem is it doesn't have enough admin people and managers to organise things properly.