Evidence of General Election Voting Fraud

Evidence of General Election Voting Fraud

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bad company

Original Poster:

18,484 posts

265 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
I'm really unsure whether to believe this or not:-

https://www.change.org/p/uk-electoral-commission-l...

Anyway it looks worthy of investigation so I signed.

JagLover

42,266 posts

234 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
I think there are posts on social media to suggest it did happen.

Signed as well for all the good it will do.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
If there is any evidence that this has happened - it needs to be investigated.

However if this is just people grasping because the election didn't go as they'd hoped - they need to grow up.

I'm doubtful - if there was widespread evidence of people voting twice (as some people are suggesting - having supposedly seen loads of twitter posts etc bragging about it) then I would have expected the right wing media to have been all over it by now. It's not difficult to grab a screen shot - yet the only one I have seen is the one attached to the petition - and it's not even clear it relates to this general election (students are allowed to vote twice in local elections).

Edited by Moonhawk on Tuesday 13th June 06:39

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
If there are fraudsters, how do they find out (see below) and were the numbers changing a result?

I suppose that on line hubris can be collected before people start to realise and delete tweets etc? Would that amount to any evidence for a prosecution?

Postal voting has been an issue for a few years I understand. That is someone filling in the paper work for another party.

But when Peoples Momentum mobilised a generation would it matter?

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
jmorgan said:
.......and were the numbers changing a result?
They could do.

I have just been through the constituency results here (it would be nice if there was a proper tabulated version):

https://ig.ft.com/election-results-2017/constituen...

Labour won 15 seats off the Conservatives with less than a 2% margin (much less than 1% in some cases) - and a further 4 from other parties.

Even a couple of hundred fraudulent votes in some of these constituencies would have been enough to flip the result.

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
Change.org is meaningless I think.

If this was a serious petition, shouldn't it be on the official parliament petition site?

turbobloke

103,744 posts

259 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
The best bit is that anyone including this muppet who actually did vote twice for Labour still didn't get the Labour government they thought would be a good idea.

Constituency uneven playing field, postal votes, multiple voting, these need sorting out but even with all that and massive bribery on top, Labour still failed. There's hope yet.

NoIP

559 posts

83 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
Before the ER reg was changed you could add as many made up names as you wanted to the ER form when it dropped through your letterbox every year and they would get added without any checks. You then signed up each name for postal voting and you could vote as many times as you wanted. However they stopped that a couple of years ago and now if you want to get on the ER you have to provide your NINO and DOB on the form and they do an electronic check with HMRC records to see if you exist. If you do not or you put false details down, the ER office write back to you telling you that they were unable to verify your identity and request you send them a copy of your DL or PP. Based on that I imagine it's pretty difficult for someone to vote twice now in the GE, at least not in the same area anyway. I have no idea whether Leeds ER department talk to Bradford ER department for example, but if they do not then I don't suppose there's anything to stop you getting yourself on the ER in the 'other' area if you have access to an address.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
^^ I guess the problem is, people registering for postal votes in one area (which may require NI number) and then registering for a "turn up at the polling station" vote in another area (which does not require NI number).

Cross checking this would be very difficult.


NoIP

559 posts

83 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
Moonhawk said:
^^ I guess the problem is, people registering for postal votes in one area (which may require NI number) and then registering for a "turn up at the polling station" vote in another area (which does not require NI number).

Cross checking this would be very difficult.
What is this "turn up at the polling station" sorcery you speak of?

jtremlett

1,369 posts

221 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
NoIP said:
...I have no idea whether Leeds ER department talk to Bradford ER department for example, but if they do not then I don't suppose there's anything to stop you getting yourself on the ER in the 'other' area if you have access to an address.
Yes they do. Area A should get advised by area B of any electors that have moved from A to B so they can be removed from area A's electoral roll.


Oakey

27,524 posts

215 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
When I googled this yesterday it seems that students can be both registered to vote in their home town and the town they reside as a student at the same time. It's as simple as that and there's little to stop them voting twice other than it being illegal and the possibility of a £5000 fine.

NoIP

559 posts

83 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
jtremlett said:
NoIP said:
...I have no idea whether Leeds ER department talk to Bradford ER department for example, but if they do not then I don't suppose there's anything to stop you getting yourself on the ER in the 'other' area if you have access to an address.
Yes they do. Area A should get advised by area B of any electors that have moved from A to B so they can be removed from area A's electoral roll.
But if your plan is to vote more than once you're not going to tell them you've moved from another area are you! You tell them anything other than that, eg. just moved to the UK from x. So long as you can provide proof of who you are, or pass the electronic HMRC check then they don't care as their box ticking exercise is complete.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
Moonhawk said:
jmorgan said:
.......and were the numbers changing a result?
They could do.

I have just been through the constituency results here (it would be nice if there was a proper tabulated version):

https://ig.ft.com/election-results-2017/constituen...

Labour won 15 seats off the Conservatives with less than a 2% margin (much less than 1% in some cases) - and a further 4 from other parties.

Even a couple of hundred fraudulent votes in some of these constituencies would have been enough to flip the result.
Interesting. Just been looking at the University cites in that list.

essayer

9,011 posts

193 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Change.org is meaningless I think.

If this was a serious petition, shouldn't it be on the official parliament petition site?
I don't think that's available until Parliament restarts

As I said in the other thread, how do you prove someone voted twice?

- look at postal votes for constituency of interest
- compare to ward lists (crossed off when you vote in person) for every ward in the country (9,456 in this election) - these are paper records remember
- find the voting slips for those matches from the archives
- somehow prove that Mr Smith in one constituency is the same Mr Smith in another
- do all this with 21 days of the election result in order to petition the Electoral Commission. Also lodge £5,500. And you have to be a voter or a person who was standing to lodge the petition.

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
Whoever created it seems to think that if it gets 100,000 signatures, then it'll be debated. They don't even know the difference between a change.org petition and one on the official site.

Strange that it's only a concern now, when it's been possible (and used to be far easier) for decades.

turbobloke

103,744 posts

259 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
rscott said:
Whoever created it seems to think that if it gets 100,000 signatures, then it'll be debated. They don't even know the difference between a change.org petition and one on the official site.

Strange that it's only a concern now, when it's been possible (and used to be far easier) for decades.
That's social media for you, unavailable for decades then several come along at broadly the same time.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
That's social media for you, unavailable for decades then several come along at broadly the same time.
Yep - and I guess with social media, it's much easier to disseminate the information to a lot of people and rally them to the cause.

Until today, I didn't even know you were allowed to be registered to vote at two addresses.

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
Moonhawk said:
turbobloke said:
That's social media for you, unavailable for decades then several come along at broadly the same time.
Yep - and I guess with social media, it's much easier to disseminate the information to a lot of people and rally them to the cause.

Until today, I didn't even know you were allowed to be registered to vote at two addresses.
I was (back in my student days). Used to be some very strange voting patterns in Westminster back then...

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Tuesday 13th June 2017
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Change.org is meaningless I think.

If this was a serious petition, shouldn't it be on the official parliament petition site?
All petitions were closed in the run up to the election - not sure if it's opened up for new ones

Slightly annoying because the "Trump should visit" was catching up with the closed "Trump shouldn't visit" one and now they are both closed