Tory-DUP Confidence And Supply deal

[Mrr T]

I watched Damien Green on the news last night explain why a 2bn bung to the DUP was not a bung. It was hilarious.

Edited by Mrr T on Tuesday 27th June 14:23

[anonymous-user]

vonuber said:

WindyCommon said:

Whilst this is a grubby deal, my gut feel is that it is better than the alternatives. If you were TM, what would you have done differently since the election?

Run a minority government and seeked consensus with other parties on important issues to do the best for the country? Like grownups do?

You need grown ups on the other side to achieve that, no chance with Corbyn, Abbot and McDonell who will do everything they can to bring the government down.

[Tankrizzo]

Eddie Strohacker said:

Agree with the ineptness. Not seen such a piss poor bunch in my lifetime but the alternative is a Tory leadership contest, which they won't want or another election, which they desperately won't want since despite cocking it right up with the worst campaign in living memory, they're not so stupid that they can't see going to the polls again represents a very real possibility of a Labour majority.

When you consider this whole thing started out as a Conservative attempt to suture the Europe issue, it really has turned into the most tremendous clusterfk of monumental proportions that I believe will in time be judged to be the most capriciously wilful act of self harm the country has perpetrated against itself in as long as anyone can remember. Mine's a large Rioja.

I'll take a rubbish Tory government at the moment over The Corbynator and his merry band of fkwits. You're absolutely right though, it's a terrible reflection on UK politics when we're judging parties on being slightly less st than total st. I'll have a whisky and ginger.

[confused_buyer]

There is some dodgy maths going on here regarding Corbyn's ability to form a Government.

He has 262 MPs. If he did a deal with SNP, Greens and PC that would get him to 302. Now where near enough, so he would need the LibDems. That gets him to 314 which is still less than the Tories have on their own.

In short, even if he got into No. 10 and could form such a coalition he would be totally hostage to fortune. The Tories could simply have him there but not able to get a single bit of legislation through unless.....oh hang on, he did a deal with the DUP!

Even worse the Tories could just abstain on the Queen's Speech and maybe a Budget and keep him there unable to call an election until Corbyn inevitably cocked everything up and then they'd go for a no-confidence motion triggering an election at a time of their choosing.

[turbobloke]

p1stonhead said:

jsf said:

vonuber said:

WindyCommon said:

Whilst this is a grubby deal, my gut feel is that it is better than the alternatives. If you were TM, what would you have done differently since the election?

Run a minority government and seeked consensus with other parties on important issues to do the best for the country? Like grownups do?

You need grown ups on the other side to achieve that, no chance with Corbyn, Abbot and McDonell who will do everything they can to bring the government down.

Is this satire or do you realise how stupid you sound with such sentences?

What's stupid isn't the post from jsf - stupid is what Labour's mob does.

McDonnell wanted to, and thought he could, bring down the Tory government starting last year, in May 2016. Fail.

Since then...

Corbyn made comments about toppling May "within days" (fail) and being the PM "within 6 months" (future fail) and has gone so far as to reveal plans for his first day as Prime Minister. Post-Steptoesque levels of arrogance come easy for JC.

McDonnell has openly invited selected Tory MPs to 'secret' talks to destabilise the government and has told (!) the Tory government they should stand down so that Labour can form a minority government.

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has told Sky News that Labour are "absolutely on our toes" to set up an alternative minority government.

Labour's focus isn't helping to steer the country along as smooth a path as possible to Brexit and beyond, it's to cause as much trouble as they can by endless st stirring, in their own interest, in the hope of replacing the winning Conservative minority government with an even more minor minority government involving Labour's bunch of election losers.

Pure tossery.

[p1stonhead]

turbobloke said:

p1stonhead said:

jsf said:

vonuber said:

WindyCommon said:

Whilst this is a grubby deal, my gut feel is that it is better than the alternatives. If you were TM, what would you have done differently since the election?

Run a minority government and seeked consensus with other parties on important issues to do the best for the country? Like grownups do?

You need grown ups on the other side to achieve that, no chance with Corbyn, Abbot and McDonell who will do everything they can to bring the government down.

Is this satire or do you realise how stupid you sound with such sentences?

What's stupid isn't the post from jsf - stupid is what Labour's mob does.

McDonnell wanted to, and thought he could, bring down the Tory government starting last year, in May 2016. Fail.

Since then...

Corbyn made comments about toppling May "within days" (fail) and being the PM "within 6 months" (future fail) and has gone so far as to reveal plans for his first day as Prime Minister. Post-Steptoesque levels of arrogance come easy for JC.

McDonnell has openly invited selected Tory MPs to 'secret' talks to destabilise the government and has told (!) the Tory government they should stand down so that Labour can form a minority government.

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has told Sky News that Labour are "absolutely on our toes" to set up an alternative minority government.

Labour's focus isn't steering the country along as smooth a path as possible to Brexit and beyond, it's to cause as much trouble as they can by endless st stirring, in their own interest, in the hope of replacing the winning Conservative minority government with an even more minor minority government involving Labour;s bunch of election losers.

Pure tossery.

As opposed to what the Tories just did calling and then properly fking up the election?

Im not a labour voter but the Tories look just as shambolic as Labour at the moment IMO. Both either of them want is power. That is all.

[turbobloke]

p1stonhead said:

As opposed to what the Tories just did calling and then properly fking up the election?

Im not a labour voter but the Tories look just as shambolic as Labour at the moment IMO.

Not as shambolic as Labour in terms of capacity to form a viable governing team.

Being more shambolic than JC, McD and DA is an almost impossible challenge. Only the Greens could entertain thoughts of 'victory' in the shambolics stakes.

May screwed up and her days are numbered but they're more likely to be in the hundreds and not of Labour's choosing.

ETA not just the Greens, the current LibDems are worth a mention.

Edited by turbobloke on Tuesday 27th June 20:36

[budgie smuggler]

turbobloke said:

Not as shambolic as Labour in terms of capacity to form a viable governing team.

Being more shambolic than JC, McD and DA is an almost impossible challenge.

Yet they seemed to have managed it, May, Osborne, Johnson, Hammond, Hunt, Grayling. Is that really the best we have to offer?

[bitchstewie]

And yet more what aboutery, which isn't a huge surprise when the whole premise of the election was "Vote for us, we know you don't want to but we're not as st as the other lot, honest".

[turbobloke]

budgie smuggler said:

turbobloke said:

Not as shambolic as Labour in terms of capacity to form a viable governing team.

Being more shambolic than JC, McD and DA is an almost impossible challenge.

Yet they seemed to have managed it, May, Osborne, Johnson, Hammond, Hunt, Grayling. Is that really the best we have to offer?

Best of a bad lot, least worst option.

[MercedesClassic]

turbobloke said:

p1stonhead said:

jsf said:

vonuber said:

WindyCommon said:

Whilst this is a grubby deal, my gut feel is that it is better than the alternatives. If you were TM, what would you have done differently since the election?

Run a minority government and seeked consensus with other parties on important issues to do the best for the country? Like grownups do?

You need grown ups on the other side to achieve that, no chance with Corbyn, Abbot and McDonell who will do everything they can to bring the government down.

Is this satire or do you realise how stupid you sound with such sentences?

What's stupid isn't the post from jsf - stupid is what Labour's mob does.

McDonnell wanted to, and thought he could, bring down the Tory government starting last year, in May 2016. Fail.

Since then...

Corbyn made comments about toppling May "within days" (fail) and being the PM "within 6 months" (future fail) and has gone so far as to reveal plans for his first day as Prime Minister. Post-Steptoesque levels of arrogance come easy for JC.

McDonnell has openly invited selected Tory MPs to 'secret' talks to destabilise the government and has told (!) the Tory government they should stand down so that Labour can form a minority government.

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry has told Sky News that Labour are "absolutely on our toes" to set up an alternative minority government.

Labour's focus isn't helping to steer the country along as smooth a path as possible to Brexit and beyond, it's to cause as much trouble as they can by endless st stirring, in their own interest, in the hope of replacing the winning Conservative minority government with an even more minor minority government involving Labour's bunch of election losers.

Pure tossery.

I try to keep posts on PH about our main passion motoring but feel compelled to contribute. Of the posts I've read I empathise with this the most. I think TM is getting a rough time of it and not entirely fairly. She's inherited a poison chalice by being PM and having to get the best out of Brexit. She's backed by advisers who would have read the polls and mood and thought lets go get more seats to make us stronger in the negotiations. She was ahead until the Jihadis put the skids under her in favour of a softer leader Corbin. She didn't do herself any favours by not appearing on TV then JC decided he would as he had clear run. He's promised free this that and the other thing which is easy when you're not in power. The media and public lapped it up this new charismatic persona. As a communist he'd have us living in tower blocks like old Russia and the unions running the show. Can you imagine his lot trying to organise a Brexit deal? At the end of the day there's more money and toffs in the caviar communist party aka Labour than conservatives. I'm from NI so I'll be accused of bias but the arrangement at present will in hindsight be a blessing. Let me explain why I feel this. The DUP ain't perfect who is, but they want less austerity without rampant tax and spend. They also want a softer Brexit as per Wales and esp Scotland as we have a border with the EU. They are pro Union and want to strengthen it rather than divide us like SNP, Sinn Fein etc. There's other things but I can't remember LOL. Anyway as mentioned in parliament yesterday by Nigel Dodds the other parties have courted their support in recent times so they're hypocrites for lambasting TM. The DUP couldn't nor shouldn't tie up without some 'Deal' like relaxation of the purse strings because they're not as thick as people like to make out. The extra is partly money previously budgeted but due to incompetence in Stormont wasn't spent so reabsorbed by the treasury. Belfast has some of the worst congestion in Europe, longest NHS waiting lists in UK and worst cancer survival rates etc etc. This funding is badly needed but I fear it will get squandered in inefficiencies. The UK is going through a tough time but not for the last time will we as group of 4 fabulous nations rise to meet the challenge and look back and wonder what the fuss was about. That's my hopeful belief anyway. I thought by now I'd hit a word limit! As they said during the blitz Keep calm and carry on.

[Elysium]

Jockman said:

BigMon said:

Having mulled it over, I still think this is farcical and May needs to go.

However, if the alternative was Corbyn and, especially, McDonnell holding the reins of power then I think I would sanction almost any payment.

I'm 44 and I think we currently have the most inept set of politicians on both sides of the house within my living memory. All this with Brexit approaching too.

Marvellous. Is it too early to start drinking?

Difficult to argue against. Including the drinking bit.

I am similar in age and could not agree more.

[Hugo a Gogo]

if there's going to be a Brexit deal, it should have always been a cross-party deal

pity none of them have anything other than their own careers on their minds

[BigMon]

MercedesClassic said:

The UK is going through a tough time but not for the last time will we as group of 4 fabulous nations rise to meet the challenge and look back and wonder what the fuss was about. That's my hopeful belief anyway. I thought by now I'd hit a word limit! As they said during the blitz Keep calm and carry on.

Small tip, break up your posts with whitespace. A block of text is very difficult to read.

Anyway, I've picked out the above. I hope you're right, but I think 2017 Britain is very different to 1940 Britain and I don't think there is any Dunkirk spirit left to be honest.

You only have to see the panic when there is half an inch of snow and supermarket deliveries are affected. Shelves cleared of bread and milk in an instant and no thought of anyone else whilst buying 12 pints of milk and 8 loaves of bread.

We live in an 'I'm alright Jack so fk you' society now. Sadly it's reflected in a lot of posts on the Pistonheads forum in general.

[sidicks]

BigMon said:

Small tip, break up your posts with whitespace. A block of text is very difficult to read.

Anyway, I've picked out the above. I hope you're right, but I think 2017 Britain is very different to 1940 Britain and I don't think there is any Dunkirk spirit left to be honest.

You only have to see the panic when there is half an inch of snow and supermarket deliveries are affected. Shelves cleared of bread and milk in an instant and no thought of anyone else whilst buying 12 pints of milk and 8 loaves of bread.

We live in an 'I'm alright Jack so fk you' society now. Sadly it's reflected in a lot of posts on the Pistonheads forum in general.

I think many people from both sides of the political divide have a desire for broadly similar outcomes when it comes to the poorest in society. Where they differ is regarding the best and most efficient way of achieving those outcomes.

Certainly there is an argument for letting individuals do their bit for society directly, rather than facing significantly increased taxes which will often be mis-used / inefficiently used by governments, for political rather than economic reasons.

[BigMon]

sidicks said:

I think many people from both sides of the political divide have a desire for broadly similar outcomes when it comes to the poorest in society. Where they differ is regarding the best and most efficient way of achieving those outcomes.

Certainly there is an argument for letting individuals do their bit for society directly, rather than facing significantly increased taxes which will often be mis-used / inefficiently used by governments, for political rather than economic reasons.

I think you misunderstood my point which was that if tough times are coming for whatever reason that may be (Brexit, political uncertainty, whatever) then I don't think we can rely on us banding together the way we did in the 40s as we are in significantly different place now.

It wasn't meant to be a dig at right or left, rich or poor.

[sidicks]

BigMon said:

I think you misunderstood my point which was that if tough times are coming for whatever reason that may be (Brexit, political uncertainty, whatever) then I don't think we can rely on us banding together the way we did in the 40s as we are in significantly different place now.

It wasn't meant to be a dig at right or left, rich or poor.

I certainly agree that the 'stiff upper lip' and 'just get on with it' culture is less prevalent in the younger generations, having been replacing by the 'entitlement' culture!

[anonymous-user]

BigMon said:

MercedesClassic said:

The UK is going through a tough time but not for the last time will we as group of 4 fabulous nations rise to meet the challenge and look back and wonder what the fuss was about. That's my hopeful belief anyway. I thought by now I'd hit a word limit! As they said during the blitz Keep calm and carry on.

Small tip, break up your posts with whitespace. A block of text is very difficult to read.

Anyway, I've picked out the above. I hope you're right, but I think 2017 Britain is very different to 1940 Britain and I don't think there is any Dunkirk spirit left to be honest.

You only have to see the panic when there is half an inch of snow and supermarket deliveries are affected. Shelves cleared of bread and milk in an instant and no thought of anyone else whilst buying 12 pints of milk and 8 loaves of bread.

We live in an 'I'm alright Jack so fk you' society now. Sadly it's reflected in a lot of posts on the Pistonheads forum in general.

I would add that its seen by many to be something to be laughed at. Helping others that is.
My wife does a few things with older people. Takes them shopping. Its done via local group that was set up by a retired sprightly woman who noticed that older folk near her were held hostage by the likes of the small chain shop. A few got together my wife heard of it and joined in. So once a fortnight off she goes picks up Beryl/ Mavis/ Margaret/ George and off they go. They save a fair few quid and she gets to chat with them. Along the way she has invited folk round for the Sunday lunches. Our daughters when growing up would sit with them learn stuff, be amazed at stories of Black n white tellies old everyday things. I would hear about Ford Anglias Vauxhall Vivas Singer whatevers Hillman Imps
My wife found that few of her mates (those on the pirapheny as she calls them) were mocking her. Like she said that's their loss.
When its bad weather we both make a point of checking a couple of oldies in the street are ok do they need shopping etc.
You can witness intolerance to old people everyday. It's not a brexit effect I am referring to just plain old fashioned bad manners. You see it in Post Offices with old Bill trying to enter his poin number to get his money out and people tutting because they are having to wait an extra 2 minutes to post their "re gifted" e bay package off that one of their relatives bought but which is the wrong colour or not up to the standard they expected. I realise that most PH'ers wont see it as they don't use those pesky buses BUT You see it with people on the buses huffing in queues because old Betty is taking a few seconds to pick up her pass and walk to a seat that's halfway down the bus. That's because the front seats have been taken by some selfish bh with 2 kids who ignores the sign saying seats for elderly priority. Then the tutters tender a ten quid note and hold the queu up far longer than Betty did.
A lot of it is me me me.

[gooner1]

With regard to the younger generation, specifically the "entitlement culture" species.
How have they turned out this way. Nurture or Nature.
Previous generations have hardly been a beacon of light to them, imo.

FWIW, I think that in times of real adversary, the young ones wouldn't be so different
than previous generations.

[turbobloke]

gooner1 said:

With regard to the younger generation, specifically the "entitlement culture" species.
How have they turned out this way. Nurture or Nature.
Previous generations have hardly been a beacon of light to them, imo.

FWIW, I think that in times of real adversary, the young ones wouldn't be so different
than previous generations.

They've got off to a bad start, blaming boomers for their own ills.

Just as previous generations blamed previous generations, round and round we go