Robert Peston job ad - whites need not apply
Discussion
for example if pestons team is looking for a reporter who will focus on reporting on black or muslim community issues that affect women in someonewhere like Lozells or Rotherham the most affective person for the job will be a black or muslim woman.
if you put up an advertisement for the above and a white man applies for either of those roles he may be the best reporter in the world but it does not mean that the people he needs to befriend and obtain information from will be more forthcoming with the info.
if you then turn the white applicant down based on race, i would imagine it will not only waste everyone's time but no doubt break the law.
in my opinion it is far better to use a directed method using a specific route for employers to seek specific types of people for specific roles through government approved units which can be oversaw with regulation.
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
if you put up an advertisement for the above and a white man applies for either of those roles he may be the best reporter in the world but it does not mean that the people he needs to befriend and obtain information from will be more forthcoming with the info.
if you then turn the white applicant down based on race, i would imagine it will not only waste everyone's time but no doubt break the law.
in my opinion it is far better to use a directed method using a specific route for employers to seek specific types of people for specific roles through government approved units which can be oversaw with regulation.
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Carl_Manchester said:
for example if pestons team is looking for a reporter who will focus on reporting on black or muslim community issues that affect women in someonewhere like Lozells or Rotherham the most affective person for the job will be a black or muslim woman.
if you put up an advertisement for the above and a white man applies for either of those roles he may be the best reporter in the world but it does not mean that the people he needs to befriend and obtain information from will be more forthcoming with the info.
if you then turn the white applicant down based on race, i would imagine it will not only waste everyone's time but no doubt break the law.
in my opinion it is far better to use a directed method using a specific route for employers to seek specific types of people for specific roles through government approved units which can be oversaw with regulation.
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Doesn't this create other problems though ? Using your example if only Black or Muslim people are employed to report on black or muslim issues in the areas you refer to, that hardly builds a multicultural inclusive society, or potentially shows white people in a positive light. If black people only see black people reporting on issues that effect them they are unlikely to trust white people ? Black or Muslim people should get used to dealing with white people, they make up over 80% of the UK population. if you put up an advertisement for the above and a white man applies for either of those roles he may be the best reporter in the world but it does not mean that the people he needs to befriend and obtain information from will be more forthcoming with the info.
if you then turn the white applicant down based on race, i would imagine it will not only waste everyone's time but no doubt break the law.
in my opinion it is far better to use a directed method using a specific route for employers to seek specific types of people for specific roles through government approved units which can be oversaw with regulation.
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Attracting the white middle aged male journalist might be tricky, but then so it appears is attracting women to engineering, it doesn't mean that we don't stop investing and trying.
Carl_Manchester said:
...
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
It's an internship shadowing the producers; it's got nothing to do with needing to be any certain colour to be better at the job like the example you gave.to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Carl_Manchester said:
for example if pestons team is looking for a reporter who will focus on reporting on black or muslim community issues that affect women in someonewhere like Lozells or Rotherham the most affective person for the job will be a black or muslim woman.
if you put up an advertisement for the above and a white man applies for either of those roles he may be the best reporter in the world but it does not mean that the people he needs to befriend and obtain information from will be more forthcoming with the info.
if you then turn the white applicant down based on race, i would imagine it will not only waste everyone's time but no doubt break the law.
in my opinion it is far better to use a directed method using a specific route for employers to seek specific types of people for specific roles through government approved units which can be oversaw with regulation.
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Using that logic the best person to be a police commissioner is an ex-con.if you put up an advertisement for the above and a white man applies for either of those roles he may be the best reporter in the world but it does not mean that the people he needs to befriend and obtain information from will be more forthcoming with the info.
if you then turn the white applicant down based on race, i would imagine it will not only waste everyone's time but no doubt break the law.
in my opinion it is far better to use a directed method using a specific route for employers to seek specific types of people for specific roles through government approved units which can be oversaw with regulation.
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
fblm said:
Carl_Manchester said:
...
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
It's an internship shadowing the producers; it's got nothing to do with needing to be any certain colour to be better at the job like the example you gave.to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Carl_Manchester said:
fblm said:
Carl_Manchester said:
...
to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
It's an internship shadowing the producers; it's got nothing to do with needing to be any certain colour to be better at the job like the example you gave.to me this is what appears to be happening with this specific job posting and that is why i don't have a problem with it.
Oh, hang on....
It seems reasonable to me to help people, who might make great job candidates, present themselves well.
Racism affecting job prospects is two sided- employers may be biased, consciously or unconsciously, and the law at least tries to tackle that.
The other side though is people from certain communities thinking 'that sort of job is not for the likes of me'. They need help both to change that attitude (preferably early and involving their parents) and to help them present themselves as candidates. This help is by definition aimed at minority communities- that's not racist, it's common sense. It doesn't mean they will get jobs unless they are the best candidates.
An example- working in the City through the 1990s and the 2000s- people could easily get 'starter' jobs. Good staff were hard to find. Why did no-one from the Bangla Deshi community 10 minutes walk away go for these jobs? Yes some companies no doubt would not have employed them anyway, but the larger companies were employing Asian and Black people who lived in the suburbs miles away, so there were certainly some unprejudiced employers. A big part of it must have been the inward looking nature of the Bangla Deshi community. They needed (need) help and encouragement .
Surely that is the sort of thing these Creative Access people are trying to do.
Racism affecting job prospects is two sided- employers may be biased, consciously or unconsciously, and the law at least tries to tackle that.
The other side though is people from certain communities thinking 'that sort of job is not for the likes of me'. They need help both to change that attitude (preferably early and involving their parents) and to help them present themselves as candidates. This help is by definition aimed at minority communities- that's not racist, it's common sense. It doesn't mean they will get jobs unless they are the best candidates.
An example- working in the City through the 1990s and the 2000s- people could easily get 'starter' jobs. Good staff were hard to find. Why did no-one from the Bangla Deshi community 10 minutes walk away go for these jobs? Yes some companies no doubt would not have employed them anyway, but the larger companies were employing Asian and Black people who lived in the suburbs miles away, so there were certainly some unprejudiced employers. A big part of it must have been the inward looking nature of the Bangla Deshi community. They needed (need) help and encouragement .
Surely that is the sort of thing these Creative Access people are trying to do.
plenty said:
princealbert23 said:
Why do you imagine only white and wealthy people are posting here? You haven't got a clue as to the circumstances of the posters who disagree with the advert.
The reactions in question are typical of people who do not acknowledge white privilege, who typically comprise conservative white people.Anyway, could anyone tell me where I can cash in my white privilege? Is there a number I need to ring to activate it or something? Reason I ask is that I'm looking for a new job and could do with getting this unfair advantage. I've never had someone offer me a job, discount or preferential treatment just based on my skin colour and I'm a bit annoyed I've been missing out.
I worked with a chap in the city not so long ago - amazing guy who happened to be black; very likeable, hard working, everyone got on with him and good role model. He was brought up in a typical middle class environment, found it funny and cool to be the only black guy in the school sorta thing when younger.
Any way, he's one of those chaps that likes to give something back in his spare time - good on him. One evening a week he helps out at a local community thing trying to help those in their youth to grow up a bit and see they can make something of themselves. He said it was pretty much the local black kids that liked to hang out together that went to be seen as trying to do something (but really they are just larking about so they can go home and say they've been).
They would not accept that he, being a black man worked with middle class white guys in a bank in the city and that no one makes any deal about it. It just doesn't happen in their world. He asked them what they want to be - the usual crap of footballer, rapper, dealer, etc - in their eyes that's what black guys do as whites and blacks don't mix (this is in 2015 UK). I give him credit; he sits there and helps them write their CVs, give career advise and even offers to set up interviews but he says that due to their upbringing they see the world as white people get good jobs and black people have to look after their own.
Shame really. He openly says its like a reverse racism thing going on inside their heads - people are now so used to crying "racist!", it's easier to do that than to look at yourself and grow up and go beyond your comfort zone. I'm sure the same happens in other categories of people.
There is no simple answer but the Peston advert is very wrong. Surely anyone male, female, skinny or fat from ideally a disadvantaged background with a good work ethic should get a chance - what the colour pigmentation levels in your skin has anything to do with using your brain I have no idea. This kind of thing just stirs things up as "us and them" - it's not helpful in this day and age.
Any way, he's one of those chaps that likes to give something back in his spare time - good on him. One evening a week he helps out at a local community thing trying to help those in their youth to grow up a bit and see they can make something of themselves. He said it was pretty much the local black kids that liked to hang out together that went to be seen as trying to do something (but really they are just larking about so they can go home and say they've been).
They would not accept that he, being a black man worked with middle class white guys in a bank in the city and that no one makes any deal about it. It just doesn't happen in their world. He asked them what they want to be - the usual crap of footballer, rapper, dealer, etc - in their eyes that's what black guys do as whites and blacks don't mix (this is in 2015 UK). I give him credit; he sits there and helps them write their CVs, give career advise and even offers to set up interviews but he says that due to their upbringing they see the world as white people get good jobs and black people have to look after their own.
Shame really. He openly says its like a reverse racism thing going on inside their heads - people are now so used to crying "racist!", it's easier to do that than to look at yourself and grow up and go beyond your comfort zone. I'm sure the same happens in other categories of people.
There is no simple answer but the Peston advert is very wrong. Surely anyone male, female, skinny or fat from ideally a disadvantaged background with a good work ethic should get a chance - what the colour pigmentation levels in your skin has anything to do with using your brain I have no idea. This kind of thing just stirs things up as "us and them" - it's not helpful in this day and age.
plenty said:
princealbert23 said:
Why do you imagine only white and wealthy people are posting here? You haven't got a clue as to the circumstances of the posters who disagree with the advert.
The reactions in question are typical of people who do not acknowledge white privilege, who typically comprise conservative white people.Anubis said:
I worked with a chap in the city not so long ago - amazing guy who happened to be black; very likeable, hard working, everyone got on with him and good role model. He was brought up in a typical middle class environment, found it funny and cool to be the only black guy in the school sorta thing when younger.
Any way, he's one of those chaps that likes to give something back in his spare time - good on him. One evening a week he helps out at a local community thing trying to help those in their youth to grow up a bit and see they can make something of themselves. He said it was pretty much the local black kids that liked to hang out together that went to be seen as trying to do something (but really they are just larking about so they can go home and say they've been).
They would not accept that he, being a black man worked with middle class white guys in a bank in the city and that no one makes any deal about it. It just doesn't happen in their world. He asked them what they want to be - the usual crap of footballer, rapper, dealer, etc - in their eyes that's what black guys do as whites and blacks don't mix (this is in 2015 UK). I give him credit; he sits there and helps them write their CVs, give career advise and even offers to set up interviews but he says that due to their upbringing they see the world as white people get good jobs and black people have to look after their own.
Shame really. He openly says its like a reverse racism thing going on inside their heads - people are now so used to crying "racist!", it's easier to do that than to look at yourself and grow up and go beyond your comfort zone. I'm sure the same happens in other categories of people.
There is no simple answer but the Peston advert is very wrong. Surely anyone male, female, skinny or fat from ideally a disadvantaged background with a good work ethic should get a chance - what the colour pigmentation levels in your skin has anything to do with using your brain I have no idea. This kind of thing just stirs things up as "us and them" - it's not helpful in this day and age.
Not disagreeing with any of your post, but you would probably find similar of white kids on a sink estate. It's not just a colour thing, but also a class thing. The problem we have now is that we are now into the second or even third generation of disenfranchised, unemployed families feeling that society doesn't work for them. Breaking the cycle isn't going to be easy but adverts such as Peston's make things worse, not better imho.Any way, he's one of those chaps that likes to give something back in his spare time - good on him. One evening a week he helps out at a local community thing trying to help those in their youth to grow up a bit and see they can make something of themselves. He said it was pretty much the local black kids that liked to hang out together that went to be seen as trying to do something (but really they are just larking about so they can go home and say they've been).
They would not accept that he, being a black man worked with middle class white guys in a bank in the city and that no one makes any deal about it. It just doesn't happen in their world. He asked them what they want to be - the usual crap of footballer, rapper, dealer, etc - in their eyes that's what black guys do as whites and blacks don't mix (this is in 2015 UK). I give him credit; he sits there and helps them write their CVs, give career advise and even offers to set up interviews but he says that due to their upbringing they see the world as white people get good jobs and black people have to look after their own.
Shame really. He openly says its like a reverse racism thing going on inside their heads - people are now so used to crying "racist!", it's easier to do that than to look at yourself and grow up and go beyond your comfort zone. I'm sure the same happens in other categories of people.
There is no simple answer but the Peston advert is very wrong. Surely anyone male, female, skinny or fat from ideally a disadvantaged background with a good work ethic should get a chance - what the colour pigmentation levels in your skin has anything to do with using your brain I have no idea. This kind of thing just stirs things up as "us and them" - it's not helpful in this day and age.
Lance Catamaran said:
plenty said:
princealbert23 said:
Why do you imagine only white and wealthy people are posting here? You haven't got a clue as to the circumstances of the posters who disagree with the advert.
The reactions in question are typical of people who do not acknowledge white privilege, who typically comprise conservative white people.Anyway, could anyone tell me where I can cash in my white privilege? Is there a number I need to ring to activate it or something? Reason I ask is that I'm looking for a new job and could do with getting this unfair advantage. I've never had someone offer me a job, discount or preferential treatment just based on my skin colour and I'm a bit annoyed I've been missing out.
princealbert23 said:
Typical? You are making a huge amount of assumptions about people you know nothing about.
I don't need to make assumptions - just read the comments.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff