Moped gang rob Porsche driver at knife point for watch

[XM5ER]

Hoofy said:

XM5ER said:

Halb said:

XM5ER said:

Dangerous driving, GBH? You know that the police (CPS) would not let it drop as vigilantism is worse than the crime. You can't have people going around taking the law into their own hands and executing summary justice (you really can't).

If the defence was, trying to escape from knife wielding assailants?

The Porsche driver yes, but this was in response to the question about the person filming the incident. They'd throw the book at you.

What about the taxi driver that tried to ram the terrorists on London bridge? Shouldn't he get done for dangerous driving or something?

I'm not sure what your driving at.

[Hoofy]

XM5ER said:

Hoofy said:

XM5ER said:

Halb said:

XM5ER said:

Dangerous driving, GBH? You know that the police (CPS) would not let it drop as vigilantism is worse than the crime. You can't have people going around taking the law into their own hands and executing summary justice (you really can't).

If the defence was, trying to escape from knife wielding assailants?

The Porsche driver yes, but this was in response to the question about the person filming the incident. They'd throw the book at you.

What about the taxi driver that tried to ram the terrorists on London bridge? Shouldn't he get done for dangerous driving or something?

I'm not sure what your driving at.

Neither was the taxi driver. He missed.

[Richardinuk]

This is the style to use:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...

All the best

[jhiker]

Both number plates are clearly visible - are those mopeds likely to be nicked..?

[Hoofy]

Richardinuk said:

This is the style to use:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...

All the best

The trick is to drive a £500 4x4 then you just bin it rather than try to claim on insurance.

[MrBrightSi]

jhiker said:

Both number plates are clearly visible - are those mopeds likely to be nicked..?

Think it was either earlier in this thread or on another thread entirely, but mopeds and bikes are being stolen specifically for this kind of thing.

Makes me happy to be some country bumpkin. Living in London sounds like some 3rd world wild-west style sthole right now.

[Blaster72]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/teenage-moped...

No doubt a promising footballer just out for a ride with his mates.

[LocoCoco]

garagewidow said:

LocoCoco said:

Yep, you'd probably end up in a similar situation to that Tony Martin guy who shot a burglar and got done for murder.

how can you compare someone shooting someone in the back with a shotgun to someone doing a u turn to try and escape the scene of a possible mugging and/or gbh and (un)intentionally hitting the culprit(s) in the process?

I would chance the consequences TBH.

this country's going mad.

Easy to make a comparison like that, maybe it wasn't the best comparison but in answer to your question I found it really easy.

I was comparing outcomes of what I think would happen to a driver who ran over the scooter riders in that situation to the outcome of Tony Martin's case. I think the driver would get prosecuted for murder/attempted murder/GBH because like you say "this country's gone mad".

I hope that I would also chance the consequences (honestly, I'd probably just freeze up).

[anonymous-user]

Those saying it's easy to manage clearly don't appreciate the practical realities.

Halb said:

La Liga said:

Much better to 'clothesline' them when on foot. Although if they're wearing helmets it can bruise the forearm, so I am told

Rick Steiner style.

A question LL. Say the person taping this then decided to floor it into the modeds as they were turning round.
What sort of charges would they face? One could say one was in fear of the same thing happening? lack of sanity temporarily ?

The law says people can use reasonable force in the circumstances (a).

The same laws apply to the public and police. The same with driving standard offences (careless / dangerous), the law offers no additional protection to the police.

So that leads me on to what I would consider doing. If I were in the police car and had witnessed a knife point robbery I'd seriously consider hitting them with my vehicle. I'd consider it highly likely. The advantage I have is I am (it may come as a great surprise) quite confident in my ability to justify my actions and experienced in doing so. I've been interviewed by the IPCC and others over uses of force so it's not an issue if it happens again. I perversely quite like giving evidence at court. The Fed (essentially my colleagues) will also bank roll me the best legal advice / representation in the country if needed.

The difference is a member of the public doesn't have the training / experience. My preference if a member of the public had done the same would be to give them every opportunity, with the appropriate guidance, to be able to justify their actions. I would hope my colleagues across the country treat it them as a witness trying to do good. The risk I see is if serious injuries are caused by the member of the public, and the full circumstances aren't immediately clear, the member of the public could end up being arrested for driving standard offences. It would depend on the circumstances but police officers aren't looking to treat good people wanting to stop crime and apprehend offenders as criminals unless it's obviously excessive i.e. the driver keeps running injured people over.

The woolly summary is it depends on the circumstances, but if I would be happy I could justify it legally, then there's no reason a member of the public can't, either.


(a) A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.

[Rovinghawk]

Blaster72 said:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/teenage-moped...

No doubt a promising footballer just out for a ride with his mates.

I feel for the policeman buried in paperwork because of the little st's death.

Bearing in mind the paperwork would be the same, it's a pity the other 3 weren't killed at the same time. It would save a trial followed by (presuming guilt) mitigation by social workers & pathetic sentences.

[DAVEVO9]

Blaster72 said:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/teenage-moped...

No doubt a promising footballer just out for a ride with his mates.

Good riddance! serves him right etc etc

[Cotty]

GT119 said:

Problem solved

I was just thinking of that

[Cotty]

Blaster72 said:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/teenage-moped...

No doubt a promising footballer just out for a ride with his mates.

Well he won't do it again. Cheaper than locking them up. Sorry but fk them.

[GT119]

Cotty said:

GT119 said:

Problem solved

I was just thinking of that

Amazing that these flamethrowers were actually real (in South Africa).
We could achieve the same effect in the UK with mandatory side exhausts and an extra injector for 'afterburn'.
Might have to ban diesels though, as I'm not sure the devil's juice will ignite in the exhaust?

[valiant]

abzmike said:

As pointed out these attacks are mostly perpetrated by two people on a moped - One to drive and stabilize it, the other to wield the knife, acid, bat, and actually carry out the attack. Simple answer for many of these, an emergency bylaw prohibiting passengers. Are mopeds really intended for 2 people anyway?

A simple answer maybe, but one that would be totally ignored by knife wielding, acid throwing young hoodlums who have zero respect for the law.

You can imagine the conversation:

Dwayne:"fancy doing some robbin' tonight?"

Wayne:" Can't blud. Law been changed init! Get our collars felt if we're two up on bike"

The police cannot stop them now as it is as the criminals simply have to ride recklessly or remove their helmets and the pursuit is called off due to risk of life and as LL pointed out earlier, no copper is going to risk years of personal hell and risk prosecution themselves over a toe rag on a moped.

So dowe grant immunity to officers who injure or contribute towards the death of a scrote failing to stop? It's a solution but it's also a very slippery slope.

There is no easy answer to this but I was under the impression that it's easier to stop a bike by using another bike so maybe more police on motorbikes might help?

[Halb]

superkartracer said:

One of the fastest in the UK at the time ha ( good job ) i was also racing f3 cars at the time ( club ) so handy , the Police were very very serious and threatening so i made the correct choice i feel .

Make and model?

[Halb]

Oakey said:

What do you expect them to say if you tell them you plan to kill someone in the future?

You should have just kept quiet, then in the future should it happen again do whatever you feel is necessary.

So long as you say the right things after the fact, and preferably they die the first time you run them over (so no reversing over them back and forth) it'll be difficult for the CPS to build a case against you.

"I was in fear for my life", "they were threatening to kill me", "i was just trying to escape", etc, etc, not " I was filled with rage so I ran that fker down and reversed back over his head for good measure".

That's how I view it. Say the right things, and if you are of good character and it looks unusual behaviour for you, it should be OK?

[Digga]

Halb said:

Oakey said:

What do you expect them to say if you tell them you plan to kill someone in the future?

You should have just kept quiet, then in the future should it happen again do whatever you feel is necessary.

So long as you say the right things after the fact, and preferably they die the first time you run them over (so no reversing over them back and forth) it'll be difficult for the CPS to build a case against you.

"I was in fear for my life", "they were threatening to kill me", "i was just trying to escape", etc, etc, not " I was filled with rage so I ran that fker down and reversed back over his head for good measure".

That's how I view it. Say the right things, and if you are of good character and it looks unusual behaviour for you, it should be OK?

Ordinary, honest and (generally) law abiding (certainly not criminal) people should not ever need to have to make these choices. Certainly far, far fewer of them would have to if serious criminals were locked away for longer.

[CAPP0]

Four Litre said:

Anyone legal know what would happen to the Porsche drive if he had / she had knocked them off and run them over. Could you say self defence as they had knife and feared for you life etc.

I'm not an internet or real-life hard man but the following is a 100% true story involving me.

Many many many years ago (mid-80s), I pulled up at the traffic lights on the South Circular between Dulwich and Forest Hill, where you turn right towards FH. There are two lanes there, I was in the outside lane and there was another car in the inside lane. Lights were red. I was driving and I had my (then) OH and her female friend in the car. It was about 11pm.

A small hatchback with 5 blokes in it then pulled into the gap between me and the other car. They were a properly rough-looking mob and they started to yell stuff at the girls (gonna rape you, etc). Then they shot forward (lights till red) and all 5 of them piled out of the car and ran towards us. At least two of them were carrying metal bars.

My only thought was escape, so I floored it and drove straight at them. I hit one of them and sent him flying. Another one kicked the car as I passed him.

Instead of turning right as intended, I knew that there was a police station further down Lordship Lane so I drove straight there and told them what had happened. They took it seriously and said they would hunt the car, but they never found it, and beyond a couple of phone calls I never heard another thing. i guess the guy I ran over didn't report it, so there was nothing to process.

To this day I have no idea where they came from or why, I hadn't seen them earlier. Maybe out of the pub car park. Certainly there had been no prior altercation, but I genuinely feared for our safety.

Back to the Porsche guy. Easy to say when you weren't there but why didn't he immediately hit the window button and drive away? The thief's hand isn't going to get trapped, so he could at least driven to the other side of the road to get away while the window was going up?

[hyphen]

^^ yikes. I keep meaning to take one of them protection courses where you practice J turns and such!!

Four Litre said:

Anyone legal know what would happen to the Porsche drive if he had / she had knocked them off and run them over. Could you say self defence as they had knife and feared for you life etc.

I think it will be same as home burglary, where as long as you don't go over the top unlikely to be in trouble.

So if you do as CAPP0 did and hit one escaping, then it is allowed and no issues. However if CAPP0 had then, despite getting clear, decided to reverse and hit one again, then it may be classed as a bit excessive.