New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030
Discussion
The game is up for petrol and diesel cars, vans, trucks, buses and trains.
The evidence shows you die younger if you live next to a busy road.
Young folk under 10 today will scratch their heads in 2100 and wonder how on Earth their parents and grandparents lived among such dirty smog and noisy motors in their towns and cities.
The ICE car today, in 2017, is in roughly the same place as the horse was in 1917. Popular, but about come to an end for mass-transport. By 1960, it was pretty much all over for the horse. By 2060, it will be pretty much all over for the combustion engine.
The evidence shows you die younger if you live next to a busy road.
Young folk under 10 today will scratch their heads in 2100 and wonder how on Earth their parents and grandparents lived among such dirty smog and noisy motors in their towns and cities.
The ICE car today, in 2017, is in roughly the same place as the horse was in 1917. Popular, but about come to an end for mass-transport. By 1960, it was pretty much all over for the horse. By 2060, it will be pretty much all over for the combustion engine.
JD said:
wsurfa said:
So there are no 350-400kw ones then, which was what was being discussed.
There are chargers, just no cars yet.Also will need to be cooled to avoid overheating.
So a feck off cable with cooling issues, once it's actually working.
Nice
Yipper said:
The game is up for petrol and diesel cars, vans, trucks, buses and trains.
The evidence shows you die younger if you live next to a busy road.
Young folk under 10 today will scratch their heads in 2100 and wonder how on Earth their parents and grandparents lived among such dirty smog and noisy motors in their towns and cities.
The ICE car today, in 2017, is in roughly the same place as the horse was in 1917. Popular, but about come to an end for mass-transport. By 1960, it was pretty much all over for the horse. By 2060, it will be pretty much all over for the combustion engine.
I suspect heavy cargo vehicles will be using the Diesel engine for some time to come. Hauling 40 tonnes for 300 miles requires a lot of energy and unless battery and charging technology adapt, oil is numero uno when it comes to convenience and energy density.The evidence shows you die younger if you live next to a busy road.
Young folk under 10 today will scratch their heads in 2100 and wonder how on Earth their parents and grandparents lived among such dirty smog and noisy motors in their towns and cities.
The ICE car today, in 2017, is in roughly the same place as the horse was in 1917. Popular, but about come to an end for mass-transport. By 1960, it was pretty much all over for the horse. By 2060, it will be pretty much all over for the combustion engine.
As for trains, the problem is that the existing overhead line system is designed for a maximum number of electric trains per section. 600A maximum IIRC. Start switching all your diesel services to electric and you're talking a total system renewal of thousands of km of wire and substations just to support the load without ending up in a tangled heap. Given that they haven't even stuck a shovel in the ground for HS2 I can't see it happening for a long time.
Edited by foxbody-87 on Wednesday 26th July 22:49
Merc 450 said:
Right so there are say 300 of you living in a tower block (like grenfell) and you all have a car Will there have to be 300 cables hanging out of every flat to charge the cars. This will never happen they haven't thought it through at all. Those of us that will still be around have 23 years to get a petrolhead government and stop this nonesence
There won't be any cables hanging out of flats. You may end up car-sharing, or may not need a car, or if you do and it needs charging it will be in a compound full of charging points. Whatever the solution it will mean significant changes in our lifestyles.Vaud said:
A market with reduced risk is less attractive as you can only command a lower premium.
Now you are contradicting yourself. I thought you said insurers will only want to insure safer robot drivers. My point is painfully simple and I'll leave it at this, in a world of lower claims premiums will fall (ignoring the possibility of cartel pricing). Humans will not be priced off the road as you claim unless they start causing more accidents than they do now. I find this scenario highly unlikely. Your reasoning is illogical. Merc 450 said:
Right so there are say 300 of you living in a tower block (like grenfell) and you all have a car Will there have to be 300 cables hanging out of every flat to charge the cars. This will never happen they haven't thought it through at all. Those of us that will still be around have 23 years to get a petrolhead government and stop this nonesence
That's a fair question.Where are their cars parked?
If you had to implement charging to them, could you figure out a way, or would it be beyond you?
otolith said:
The positions aren't irreconcilable. A mixed pool of human and autonomous drivers may mean that risks are lower for humans and their premiums fall relative to sharing the roads with more humans, however what is likely to discourage human drivers is the difference between the cost of insuring a machine you drive and one that drives itself. So a new 18 year old car user finds that his insurance to drive has fallen from £2000 to £1000 because the new autonomous cars are better at avoiding his mistakes - but he's got a choice of paying £1000 and taking driving lessons and a test, or just continuing to be driven around by a car like the family car that has been driving him around since he was a kid. That, I think, is what will kill self-driving - young people getting all of the practical benefits without the cost and responsibility. If they never learn to drive themselves, they'll never know how much fun it can be,
I agree. Misery, but a cheaper alternative is very different to being priced off the road as vaud is claiming.Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th July 01:12
Not sure if it's been covered further up the thread, but the Govt currently makes £27bn pa in revenue from road fuel duty.
How are they going to plug that hole? Presumably a tax on the electricity that everyone will be using to charge their EVs.
So, 40,000 deaths saved due to clean air .... how many pensioners dying from fuel poverty because they can't afford to put the heating on as a trade off?
How are they going to plug that hole? Presumably a tax on the electricity that everyone will be using to charge their EVs.
So, 40,000 deaths saved due to clean air .... how many pensioners dying from fuel poverty because they can't afford to put the heating on as a trade off?
otolith said:
Merc 450 said:
Right so there are say 300 of you living in a tower block (like grenfell) and you all have a car Will there have to be 300 cables hanging out of every flat to charge the cars. This will never happen they haven't thought it through at all. Those of us that will still be around have 23 years to get a petrolhead government and stop this nonesence
That's a fair question.Where are their cars parked?
If you had to implement charging to them, could you figure out a way, or would it be beyond you?
Lets say some of the people there had cars (not all of them will) they would put them in a carpark. When you park up an electrical connection comes up out of the tarmac underneath, connects to the car and charges it up.
This is in the absence of a basic plug at the end of every parking space of course....
227bhp said:
otolith said:
Merc 450 said:
Right so there are say 300 of you living in a tower block (like grenfell) and you all have a car Will there have to be 300 cables hanging out of every flat to charge the cars. This will never happen they haven't thought it through at all. Those of us that will still be around have 23 years to get a petrolhead government and stop this nonesence
That's a fair question.Where are their cars parked?
If you had to implement charging to them, could you figure out a way, or would it be beyond you?
Lets say some of the people there had cars (not all of them will) they would put them in a carpark. When you park up an electrical connection comes up out of the tarmac underneath, connects to the car and charges it up.
This is in the absence of a basic plug at the end of every parking space of course....
I'm not sure, do we know how to dig up tarmac and lay cables?
We might need to invent a device to allow a payment card to be registered against the charging episode.
If nobody else can figure out how to do this, I will be willing to do it, you'll just have to pay me a lot of money,
227bhp said:
This has been asked so many times in this thread.
Lets say some of the people there had cars (not all of them will) they would put them in a carpark. When you park up an electrical connection comes up out of the tarmac underneath, connects to the car and charges it up.
This is in the absence of a basic plug at the end of every parking space of course....
I've said it earlier, we can't fix the potholes now let alone have some sort of Total Recall charging system in place in twenty odd years.Lets say some of the people there had cars (not all of them will) they would put them in a carpark. When you park up an electrical connection comes up out of the tarmac underneath, connects to the car and charges it up.
This is in the absence of a basic plug at the end of every parking space of course....
Its pie in the sky.
Yipper said:
The game is up for petrol and diesel cars, vans, trucks, buses and trains.
The evidence shows you die younger if you live next to a busy road.
Young folk under 10 today will scratch their heads in 2100 and wonder how on Earth their parents and grandparents lived among such dirty smog and noisy motors in their towns and cities.
The ICE car today, in 2017, is in roughly the same place as the horse was in 1917. Popular, but about come to an end for mass-transport. By 1960, it was pretty much all over for the horse. By 2060, it will be pretty much all over for the combustion engine.
What evidence - fake/fraudulent advocacy studies for eco-socialists trying to dictate how we live are not evidence - especially since these studies have long since been discredited but the BBC etc. still keep repeating the fake number of deaths nonsense.The evidence shows you die younger if you live next to a busy road.
Young folk under 10 today will scratch their heads in 2100 and wonder how on Earth their parents and grandparents lived among such dirty smog and noisy motors in their towns and cities.
The ICE car today, in 2017, is in roughly the same place as the horse was in 1917. Popular, but about come to an end for mass-transport. By 1960, it was pretty much all over for the horse. By 2060, it will be pretty much all over for the combustion engine.
Any risk from petrol/diesel cars is so small it is inconsequential.
The risks associated with production of battery cars will be far worse and they are real.
Actual real world evidence shows that asthma has increased as air quality has improved.
Air quality in cities has never been better.
What does a real respiratory physician say:- pollution levels are "illegal because we made it illegal, not because it's dangerous."
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sadiq-khans-40000-poll...
Robertj21a said:
There won't be any cables hanging out of flats. You may end up car-sharing, or may not need a car, or if you do and it needs charging it will be in a compound full of charging points. Whatever the solution it will mean significant changes in our lifestyles.
f
k that socialist utopia. mickthemechanic said:
Standardise the batteries. Drive into a battery station flat battery out charged battery in drive off. Solves a lot of problems with EV.
The analysis has been done more than once and the numbers just don't work. You'd have to hold a significant stock of batteries on site to cycle through which involves considerable space and expense. Plus the kit to handle them on and off the car into storage. Plus a nice fat power supply to try to fast charge enough to keep them available as needed.You can manage the tech as a one-off demo but with the numbers needed to support a full electric fleet? No.
Not sure if this has been mentioned already but it is only non-hybrids that will be banned. You won't all be forced to drive an EV.
So no real impact to anyone at all.
No need to worry about the practicalities of charging a million EVs at the same time. Big oil, and the duty on it, is safe too.
So no real impact to anyone at all.
No need to worry about the practicalities of charging a million EVs at the same time. Big oil, and the duty on it, is safe too.
catso said:
rxe said:
Carrot, not stick …. might get some votes and acceptance. Unfortunately, once they let the councils at it , it will all be “stick to move the problem away from my patch” rather than anything integrated,
When it comes to motoring we always feel the stick, we've never tasted the carrot...Vaud said:
NightDriver said:
Fundamental issue is where will all the tax lost by the exchequer come from when all diesel/petrol cars have been banned?
Taxing the power charging through a standardized interface/charging bus, perhaps? or road mile charging based on you vehicle? or time based road mile charging, etc... lots of options that are technically possible now.Or just have the car report it's usage in the same way your employer reports PAYE.
Well it has an extremely well thought out business plan to use the GALELAO satellite constellation for road charging and SO, SO much more....
https://www.gsa.europa.eu/gnss-innovative-road-app...
https://www.gsa.europa.eu/news/progress-galileo-ro...
https://www.gsc-europa.eu/news/egnos-and-galileo-r...
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