New diesel and petrol cars banned from UK roads by 2030
Discussion
irc said:
A500leroy said:
I really do think motorbikes/electric mopeds are the future of local personal transport in places with poor public transport.
Really? Try carryng dogs or kids on a motorbike. Try taking a pile of stuff to the dump. A weeks shopping. Taking granny to her hospitakl appt. People pay a big chunk of their earnings to run cars because cars are great.
It makes no financial sense my wife and I running two cars when she has retired and most of her journeys are under 2 miles each way. But we do because we can. If I'm at work with one car (a journey to far to cycle and not possible by public transport) she can take both dogs to the moor to give them a proper run. Or do the supermarket run etc.
Mopeds are fine in dry weather if to loads are needing to be carried. And if they are being parked somewhere theft isn't a problem. Many people don't want them and won't feel safe using them.
you just have no imagination
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
Pan Pan Pan said:
If we are looking at what pollutes the most, then we must look at `all' sources, Currently CO2 emissions directly attributable to global computer manufacture, and use, exceeds that coming from global aviation.
Are we next to see computers being banned, or at the least only available for use at specified times? There are also TVs and monitor screens all consuming electricity at various rates.
Perhaps there will be bans on any activity that consumes resources and then emits CO2?
So no houses, pop festivals, foreign holidays, ships, fishing boats, combined harvesters and tractors, Cinemas, schools, hospitals, shops etc, or personal transport of any kind.
Incidentally you forgot to include trains and busses and taxis, many of which also spew out toxic filth into the air we breathe, many of which continue to run ALL day sometimes with few, or no passenger's at all on them in the most inefficient for any vehicle stop start mode. (plus the busses make an enormous amount of noise, so there is also the noise pollution aspect to be taken into account).
Oh god not this again.Are we next to see computers being banned, or at the least only available for use at specified times? There are also TVs and monitor screens all consuming electricity at various rates.
Perhaps there will be bans on any activity that consumes resources and then emits CO2?
So no houses, pop festivals, foreign holidays, ships, fishing boats, combined harvesters and tractors, Cinemas, schools, hospitals, shops etc, or personal transport of any kind.
Incidentally you forgot to include trains and busses and taxis, many of which also spew out toxic filth into the air we breathe, many of which continue to run ALL day sometimes with few, or no passenger's at all on them in the most inefficient for any vehicle stop start mode. (plus the busses make an enormous amount of noise, so there is also the noise pollution aspect to be taken into account).
Buses/trains have to run at quiet times, they can’t only operate at rush hour. Even idiots know this.
They are a public service as well as a (potentially!) greener mode of transport.
motco said:
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
this has always seemed like an untapped idea to me. have charging points but also “reserve tank” type interchangeable charged cells on the shelf. Red9zero said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
One of our offices has 6000 employees with parking for everyone that needs it. 3 spaces have charging points. Facilities have to keep sending out emails for people to move their cars when they are charged.That might be acceptable to some but with a reasonable upshift in EV ownership without and equally large (or larger)
upshift in charging spaces, you will end up with queues of 10 or more cars at charging points.
Will people be happy sitting for 3 hours waiting for a recharge. I think not.
We will need to get to two levels of charging tech.
1) The Home Charge. As now people plug in at home on the drive or in the garage and the car recharges overnight or at the weekend. (Other versions of this also available in car parks etc. so can charge in the day while at work)
2) The Fast Charge. This will cater for people without home charging capacity or those on longer journeys that need a top up or
people who just forget to plug in at home and need a top up. This would be paid for as you charge to cover the infrastructure and operating costs. However, this would need to offer a full charge in a minute or two just like filling up now with petrol/diesel.
Get to this and people will adopt EVs.
over_the_hill said:
Red9zero said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
One of our offices has 6000 employees with parking for everyone that needs it. 3 spaces have charging points. Facilities have to keep sending out emails for people to move their cars when they are charged.That might be acceptable to some but with a reasonable upshift in EV ownership without and equally large (or larger)
upshift in charging spaces, you will end up with queues of 10 or more cars at charging points.
Will people be happy sitting for 3 hours waiting for a recharge. I think not.
We will need to get to two levels of charging tech.
1) The Home Charge. As now people plug in at home on the drive or in the garage and the car recharges overnight or at the weekend. (Other versions of this also available in car parks etc. so can charge in the day while at work)
2) The Fast Charge. This will cater for people without home charging capacity or those on longer journeys that need a top up or
people who just forget to plug in at home and need a top up. This would be paid for as you charge to cover the infrastructure and operating costs. However, this would need to offer a full charge in a minute or two just like filling up now with petrol/diesel.
Get to this and people will adopt EVs.
That's compared to less than 80,000 fuel pumps that we have now.
motco said:
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
I've said this from the very beginning.The only way for mass EV car ownership to be truly practical if for a universal power cell to be designed. This way you can convert the network of petrol stations to battery exchange stations. With today's technology it would simple to make the whole process automated, you'd pull into a bay, insert credit card, robot thing under the car removes old battery and fits a fully charged one, you then drive off.
Just think of the resources you'd save over having millions of charging points everywhere, all that copper in the cabling, all the plastic, all the damage to the environment and the economy while these points are being installed.
eccles said:
motco said:
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
I've said this from the very beginning.The only way for mass EV car ownership to be truly practical if for a universal power cell to be designed. This way you can convert the network of petrol stations to battery exchange stations. With today's technology it would simple to make the whole process automated, you'd pull into a bay, insert credit card, robot thing under the car removes old battery and fits a fully charged one, you then drive off.
Just think of the resources you'd save over having millions of charging points everywhere, all that copper in the cabling, all the plastic, all the damage to the environment and the economy while these points are being installed.
V1nce Fox said:
motco said:
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
this has always seemed like an untapped idea to me. have charging points but also “reserve tank” type interchangeable charged cells on the shelf. As far as I remember the only battery exchange station that ever existed was the Tesla one, and that was pretty much only around for as long as it took to run a demo and qualify for an extra bit of related manufacturer subsidy back in the day.
robinessex said:
eccles said:
motco said:
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
I've said this from the very beginning.The only way for mass EV car ownership to be truly practical if for a universal power cell to be designed. This way you can convert the network of petrol stations to battery exchange stations. With today's technology it would simple to make the whole process automated, you'd pull into a bay, insert credit card, robot thing under the car removes old battery and fits a fully charged one, you then drive off.
Just think of the resources you'd save over having millions of charging points everywhere, all that copper in the cabling, all the plastic, all the damage to the environment and the economy while these points are being installed.
eccles said:
The only way for mass EV car ownership to be truly practical if for a universal power cell to be designed.
Absolute Bunkum. Sorry!For the vast majority, BEVs are already completely practicable today. For the edge cases, no they are not. Do you drive a transit van because twice a year you need to carry a wardrobe? No of course not.
Charging points will always lag behind demand, that's how capitalism works. From phone masts, to cash machines, public phone booths, bridges, roads themselves, everything.
But what does happen in capitalism, is that demand does drive a response. You'll see, over time, more and more fast chargers at Petrol stations, and less petrol pumps
Rremember when the diesel car was not popular? You only have to go back about 20 years, and there was probably 1 derv pump per 5 or even 10 petrol pumps, and yet, as diesels started to gain a larger proportion of the fleet, petrol pumps got replaced with derv ones. Today, the pump ratio is pretty much 50:50, which reflects the 50:50 ratio of petrols to dervs in the fleet.
As the fleet electrifies, demand will drive fast chargers and they will almost certainly replace first derv, and then petrol pumps!
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Now some people, a tiny minority, will need to do lots of miles, to have vehicles that can reach remote places, or tow heavy loads, and guess what, they will still be driving fossil fuelled powered vehicles for a lot of years yet. But the massive majority of normal people who use their family car to commute, to pick up the kids from school, to buy groceries, to pop round to see their friends, to even go to the pub, they will driving BEVs and they will find them to be faster, quieter, cheaper, easier and more comfortable to drive, more reliable, and more convienient in practically every way.......
eccles said:
robinessex said:
eccles said:
motco said:
Time to revisit the exchangeable battery stations idea. A range of different sized batteries which will fit all cars variously. All batteries guaranteed to be at least 85% of nominal capacity and fully charged prior to installation. Cars compulsorily designed to accept a battery from a standard range and with universal connectors so that a discharged battery can be exchanged and fitted within, say, fifteen minutes of arrival. Users pay only for the energy stored by the supplier but may add charge privately if necessary.
I've said this from the very beginning.The only way for mass EV car ownership to be truly practical if for a universal power cell to be designed. This way you can convert the network of petrol stations to battery exchange stations. With today's technology it would simple to make the whole process automated, you'd pull into a bay, insert credit card, robot thing under the car removes old battery and fits a fully charged one, you then drive off.
Just think of the resources you'd save over having millions of charging points everywhere, all that copper in the cabling, all the plastic, all the damage to the environment and the economy while these points are being installed.
Max_Torque said:
eccles said:
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Everybody can charge a phone at home, many can't charge a car at home though, I can't, neither can many of my neighbours as we don't have a drive, nor people who live in flats! HTP99 said:
Max_Torque said:
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Everybody can charge a phone at home, many can't charge a car at home though, I can't, neither can many of my neighbours as we don't have a drive, nor people who live in flats! It's funny, when you say that there'll be problems charging at home they say people will just charge on the go. When it's questioned whether the public BEV charging infrastructure will be man enough they say everyone will charge at home!
And the delusion cycle continues!
Max_Torque said:
eccles said:
Of course, the big difference, is that you don't have diesel coming out sockets at your home. This is a huge, critical fact. Most people will not charge very often away from home? Why would you? You don't go to a phone charging station to charge you smart phone do you? no, you plug it in at home, usually whilst you sleep/ BEVs are no different.
Everybody can charge a phone at home, many can't charge a car at home though, I can't, neither can many of my neighbours as we don't have a drive, nor people who live in flats! I am not suggesting everyone can charge at home. That would be stupid. But the fact remains, in the UK, 68% of houses have some form of off street parking, and my point was that pertty much zero percent of houses have a diesel pump at home. That's a HUGE difference in the requirement for EV specific infrastructure.
In fact, of course, those figues don't even tell the whole story, because of the correlation between the income of the people who live in houses without off-stree parking, and the geographics of those houses. The majority of houses/homes without off-street parking will be
1) in a town
2) owned by lower incoming families.
That means both that they are less likely to need a private car, and less likely to be even able to afford to buy and run one. Now, to be clear, that doesn't mean that NO ONE who lives in a house with no off-street parking will have,or need to have, an EV. Of course not. What it means is that in terms of being a "real problem" it's almost irrelevant overall.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 15th November 14:52
robinessex said:
Most garages I know of are over crowed mayhem now. Bung in an assitional recharging facilty will be nigh on impossibe to install, and have no room to function either. Hope the whole lot don't blow up either, lots of electricity next to the second most powerful explosive substance on the planet.
Do you know how petrol and diesel pumps are powered? Have a think about what actually provides the power to pump the fuel from the tanks under the forecourt and into your car's tank.Done that?
Now consider just how stupid it is to suggest that having electricity close to petrol or diesel is a real fire risk.
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