Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..
Discussion
Zigster said:
Retard, yes.
But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
Have you actually ridden a fixie?But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
I have, only ever at the track, and it takes most of a lap to come to a stop
Its utterly impossible to execute an emergency stop
Pressing backwards on the pedals is pointless over a fairly modest speed
There are some bikes with coaster brakes activated by pedalling backwards, mostly kids bikes, however the bike pictured in the article was a track bike which didnt have this facility
numtumfutunch said:
Zigster said:
Retard, yes.
But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
Have you actually ridden a fixie?But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
I have, only ever at the track, and it takes most of a lap to come to a stop
Its utterly impossible to execute an emergency stop
Pressing backwards on the pedals is pointless over a fairly modest speed
There are some bikes with coaster brakes activated by pedalling backwards, mostly kids bikes, however the bike pictured in the article was a track bike which didnt have this facility
The only reason the law allows a fixed wheel to be considered as a brake dates from when bikes trundled about at 10mph, not a modern track bike capable of upwards of 30mph. And even if you want to hide behind that outdated thinking, you must still have a front brake by law.
Moominho said:
Vipers said:
Very sad, but I see it daily, especially women, head down texting walking, crossing the road etc.
FFS put that bloody phone away, and follow basic rules, when crossing the road even if the light is green, look both ways before you cross.
Especially when there is a stationary bus in the inside lane, many just walk past the front of it without a thought of looking down the outside for cyclist or other vehicles coming.
Having said that, the cyclist in this situation deserves all he gets.
I agree with this - however in this instance, the only indication that the woman was on the phone was the defendant saying so, and he would say that as he wants to be found not guilty. I know bike riders have a hard time riding in London with all the traffic, but I find his actions hard to justify, even though other riders are saying that it isn't his fault. FFS put that bloody phone away, and follow basic rules, when crossing the road even if the light is green, look both ways before you cross.
Especially when there is a stationary bus in the inside lane, many just walk past the front of it without a thought of looking down the outside for cyclist or other vehicles coming.
Having said that, the cyclist in this situation deserves all he gets.
Vipers said:
Moominho said:
Vipers said:
Very sad, but I see it daily, especially women, head down texting walking, crossing the road etc.
FFS put that bloody phone away, and follow basic rules, when crossing the road even if the light is green, look both ways before you cross.
Especially when there is a stationary bus in the inside lane, many just walk past the front of it without a thought of looking down the outside for cyclist or other vehicles coming.
Having said that, the cyclist in this situation deserves all he gets.
I agree with this - however in this instance, the only indication that the woman was on the phone was the defendant saying so, and he would say that as he wants to be found not guilty. I know bike riders have a hard time riding in London with all the traffic, but I find his actions hard to justify, even though other riders are saying that it isn't his fault. FFS put that bloody phone away, and follow basic rules, when crossing the road even if the light is green, look both ways before you cross.
Especially when there is a stationary bus in the inside lane, many just walk past the front of it without a thought of looking down the outside for cyclist or other vehicles coming.
Having said that, the cyclist in this situation deserves all he gets.
I ride, drive and scooter in C London and many who have nowt to do with this city would not believe the amount of people who walk into the road whilst staring at their phones. In fact, the phone staring stuff is so bad that we have people on scooters who make a living out of mounting the pavement and snatching the phones - appears to be a booming industry.
My push bike is a pretty decent road bike, with ultegra calipers, swiss blocks and the rest of the mech is 105. I've noticed that emergency braking above 13mph always results in all wheels locking up or myself nearly going over the handle bars with the bike attached, I wear cleats. The emergency braking is usually because of a car not seeing me or someone stepping out in front of me...and staring at their phone.
I'm no fan of those fixie things but I see very few riding them in London. What I do see, is loads of fools on old clapped out mountain bikes and BMXs with no brakes at all. The kids around where I live appear to have no need for brakes on their BMXs? If this guy is going to get busted for no brakes, then the local council or PCSOs need to start busting everyone else who do not see the need for brakes on a bicycle.
Personally, I think this was just a tragic accident but as usual the media have created the victim and the perp. The silence on the CCTV footage is deafening. Either the cyclist is a liar or he's telling the truth, but it seems to me that his "big mouth" is on trial.
Edited by Chest Rockwell on Saturday 19th August 17:45
Zigster said:
poo at Paul's said:
Zigster said:
The bike had a rear braking mechanism activated by exerting backward resistance on the pedals. All fixies do and it's pretty effective (although I'd argue not as effective as having a front rim or disk brake as well).
If this case does make other "brakeless" fixie riders think again about their choice, that's a good thing. But I'm struggling to see the relevance to the overwhelming majority of cyclists out there which have a functional brake on their front wheel.
So no actual brakes at all then. If this case does make other "brakeless" fixie riders think again about their choice, that's a good thing. But I'm struggling to see the relevance to the overwhelming majority of cyclists out there which have a functional brake on their front wheel.
What a fking retard riding like that in London.
But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
Anyone who rides these things sharing the road with others is an utter in my book. A fking divwatt. How the fk can anyone be so fking irresponsible? it beggars belief. Get a proper fking brake on your bike you fking hipster retards. FFS
poo at Paul's said:
So no actual brakes at all then.
What a fking retard riding like that in London.
Yup - and the attitude of shouting " get outta my fking way" ...obviously expecting everyone else would simply part like the Red Sea did for Moses .. while he can barrel along a busy road at lunchtime .... and when someone was in his path .. little attempt to slow down. what a What a fking retard riding like that in London.
numtumfutunch said:
Zigster said:
Retard, yes.
But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
Have you actually ridden a fixie?But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
I have, only ever at the track, and it takes most of a lap to come to a stop
Its utterly impossible to execute an emergency stop
Pressing backwards on the pedals is pointless over a fairly modest speed
There are some bikes with coaster brakes activated by pedalling backwards, mostly kids bikes, however the bike pictured in the article was a track bike which didnt have this facility
My fixie had rim brakes as well as the back-pressure brake - I wouldn't have dreamt of riding without the rim brakes as well. But I could usually get the 6 miles or so to and from the office with barely touching the brake levers. The only time I generally used the rim brakes was to give my legs a break going down a steepish hill (Camberwell Grove).
On a track, you tend to take a lap to slow down gently, but you could stop a lot quicker if you wanted to. A lot of fixed riders can skid stop pretty quickly by locking up the back wheel. Again, not as good (in my view) as rim or disc brakes, but very definitely braking.
alfaman said:
poo at Paul's said:
So no actual brakes at all then.
What a fking retard riding like that in London.
Yup - and the attitude of shouting " get outta my fking way" ...obviously expecting everyone else would simply part like the Red Sea did for Moses .. while he can barrel along a busy road at lunchtime .... and when someone was in his path .. little attempt to slow down. what a What a fking retard riding like that in London.
An appalling disregard for other road users (pedestrians) and their safety.
Stripey daylight needed to allow time to reflect and grow up.
roachcoach said:
Sylvaforever said:
Pedestrians have right of way.
Mortuaries are full of people who had right of way, I drum this into my kids on at least a weekly basis. Just because you have right of way, doesn't mean you don't look."I was feckin' right" is a piss poor obituary.
Why is there no compulsory education for pedestrians? Being taught how to cross the road, and how to be aware of hazards associated with a road should be basic stuff taught in schools.
eccles said:
roachcoach said:
Sylvaforever said:
Pedestrians have right of way.
Mortuaries are full of people who had right of way, I drum this into my kids on at least a weekly basis. Just because you have right of way, doesn't mean you don't look."I was feckin' right" is a piss poor obituary.
Why is there no compulsory education for pedestrians? Being taught how to cross the road, and how to be aware of hazards associated with a road should be basic stuff taught in schools.
eccles said:
I mentioned this on my speed awareness course. The whole slant of the course seemed to make it the drivers fault if they hit anyone, no matter what speed they were doing.
Why is there no compulsory education for pedestrians? Being taught how to cross the road, and how to be aware of hazards associated with a road should be basic stuff taught in schools.
It is taught in Schools http://think.direct.gov.uk/education/early-years-a...Why is there no compulsory education for pedestrians? Being taught how to cross the road, and how to be aware of hazards associated with a road should be basic stuff taught in schools.
Toaster said:
It is taught in Schools http://think.direct.gov.uk/education/early-years-a...
Is it taught consistently though? Being on the national curriculum would certainly help.There are rules and advice in the highway code for pedestrians that aren't covered by the green cross code.
The green cross code is primarily concerned with crossing the road, but IMO it would be good to teach (and perhaps examine) children on much more of the highway code, especially the parts around cycling. Even parts for drivers would be helpful as it may help them to understand traffic better and be able to anticipate the movement of vehicles on the road.
XCP said:
numtumfutunch said:
Because Hipsters
There must be a reason they choose to ride them though. People who make a living getting from A to B quickly must see some advantage. I just wondered what that is.A number of my pals, and as you say many cycle couriers, ride single speed bikes in urban environments for reasons of cost and simplicity - no gears = cheaper, less weight and less to go wrong. Bikes can be rather demanding if used every day and if I didnt need to ride up some serious hills on my way to work Id certainly have gone single speed for ease of maintenance.
The crux is that not all single speed bikes are fixed.
Most have a freehub so that when you're moving and stop turning the pedals the drive disengages and you get the familiar clicky noise as the wheels go round but the pedals and chain remain still. They would usually have brakes too for obvious reasons, and a small number have back pedalling coaster brakes which work by turning the pedals backwards which has also fuelled some of the confusion on here.
If you decide to go for the full purist/hipster approach and ride fixed to remove the infinitesimally small chance of freehub failure (or youre just a Hipster tt) then we reach the point where my own opinions diverge from the other poster.
Where I differ from Zigster is that in my experience if youre riding fixed it is nigh on impossible to execute a stop in a short space of time or distance. There is just too much energy in the wheels. Rising a fixie without a front brake - not safe in my opinion.
Cheers
b2hbm said:
numtumfutunch said:
Zigster said:
Retard, yes.
But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
Have you actually ridden a fixie?But what part of brake are you struggling with? A brake is a device for slowing or stopping a moving vehicle. On a fixie, applying backward pressure on the pedals will slow or stop the bike. UK law considers this a brake which is more relevant than your own special definition.
I have, only ever at the track, and it takes most of a lap to come to a stop
Its utterly impossible to execute an emergency stop
Pressing backwards on the pedals is pointless over a fairly modest speed
There are some bikes with coaster brakes activated by pedalling backwards, mostly kids bikes, however the bike pictured in the article was a track bike which didnt have this facility
The only reason the law allows a fixed wheel to be considered as a brake dates from when bikes trundled about at 10mph, not a modern track bike capable of upwards of 30mph. And even if you want to hide behind that outdated thinking, you must still have a front brake by law.
A tragic event, and it would appear the rider is particularly dense, but may pay the price for his stupidity. Liken this to a car collision where one party (who because of the nature of the particular collision may not take much blame) being over the alcohol limit - who gets the lion's share of the blame?
If guy on bike had been riding responsibly, on a legal bike the odds would be more in his favour.
neilr said:
What needs to change is society's attitudes to each other,. The UK has a particularly unpleasant ' My Me Mine' attitude in general. Everyone is so blinkered in their belief that they are right , or on the road that they have right of way and in no way could they be wrong. Regardless of what mode of transport they are using (legs included, just look at how people walk around a shop ).
The way society views others doing things needs to change, and fast. It won't though. The Daily Mail adherents and their faux outrage will continue (on here and in society at large) whilst continuing to believe only they are correct.
What the faux outrage brigade can't see however is that this is a form of divide and conquer. Keep the peasants squabbling among themselves about st that isnt important. That way they wont realise they aren't reporting the important stuff
Spot. On. The way society views others doing things needs to change, and fast. It won't though. The Daily Mail adherents and their faux outrage will continue (on here and in society at large) whilst continuing to believe only they are correct.
What the faux outrage brigade can't see however is that this is a form of divide and conquer. Keep the peasants squabbling among themselves about st that isnt important. That way they wont realise they aren't reporting the important stuff
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