Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..

Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..

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HerrSchnell

2,342 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
HerrSchnell said:
I've now given up pointing out to them why aping Line of Sight is a bad idea.
First time I've ever quoted myself and I'm not entirely comfortable with it but I bloody well knew it...

Metro said:
He tweeted: "The time when you first take your brakes off and feeling like you're in a @lucasbrunelle movie",
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/15/cyclist-killed-woman-then-blamed-her-after-he-crashed-into-her-6852694/



Maxf

8,402 posts

240 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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ecsrobin said:
But if you were on a bike, someone walks in front of you, you crash probably injuring yourself to some degree what is the first thing you’re likely to do? Remembering that you may not know their full injuries yet?

I was crashed into on my bike, by another cyclist who came up from behind and didnt stop. My initial reaction was to shout 'what the f are you doing'? After seeing they were in a heap and distressed, I quickly got her up and checked her bike over, got her to the side of the road and checked she was ok (I'd have done the same to a bloke btw).. I was pretty ashamed at my initial reaction tbh... but it was completely 'off the cuff'.

I can't blame this guy for shouting initially, but to not almost immediately then try to help renders him rather self centered at best.

budgie smuggler

5,359 posts

158 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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Roofless Toothless said:
I fall into the one in ten of the population that has impaired hearing. I don't own a mobile phone for that reason.

What do cyclists expect me to do when they shout at me?

I believe there is a current thread where drivers who are deaf are spoken of as if they should not be on the road. Are deaf pedestrians a hazard too? I'm going to have a boring old time of it indoors if that is so.

We should all drive or ride bikes with the consideration expected towards the ten percent of other people who may not be able to hear you coming quite so well as many assume.
What would you suggest? A shout or horn blast is going to be the quickest way to alert the other party in 99% of cases

Anyway I'm a bit confused how this relates to the story. The issue was nothing to do with impaired hearing, that sense was working fine, as I gather were her eyes. She simply didn't use them properly as she was concentrating on something else (alleged phone call).

My understanding of what happened is from the cyclists posts is

1. woman is on the phone, gives a quick glance and steps into the road, failing to notice cyclist. SMIDSY etc
2. cyclist shouts, woman panics and steps forward trying to get out of his way
3. cyclist turns to swerve around her, realises woman has stepped into his path, shouts again
4. cyclist swerves the other way to avoid her
5. woman reacts to 3, steps back into his path again
6. cyclist skids, can't scrub off enough speed to avoid her due to having no brakes
7. collision
8. cyclist makes unpleasant posts on the internet

In your case it would simply be

1. gentleman with impaired hearing goes to cross road, knows he cannot rely on his hearing to avoid danger so waits until he can see it is clear
2. crosses road safely






Edited by budgie smuggler on Tuesday 15th August 15:23

Maxf

8,402 posts

240 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
budgie smuggler said:
2. cyclist shouts, woman panics and steps forward trying to get out of his way
3. cyclist turns to swerve around her, realises woman has stepped into his path, shouts again
4. cyclist swerves the other way to avoid her
5. woman reacts to 3, steps back into his path again
6. cyclist skids, can't scrub off enough speed to avoid her
7. collision
If they had time to do the foxtrot in the middle of the road, then he had time to stop, or make a bloody good attempt to. I bet he was trying to teach her a lesson by passing by as close and as quickly as he could, which ended up in hitting her.

budgie smuggler

5,359 posts

158 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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Maxf said:
If they had time to do the foxtrot in the middle of the road, then he had time to stop, or make a bloody good attempt to. I bet he was trying to teach her a lesson by passing by as close and as quickly as he could, which ended up in hitting her.
No chance, it sounds longer written down, reality is a second or two max. He didn't brake because he thought he'd sail straight past her, then by the time he realised he needed to it was too late.
I did a similar thing when a car pulled out in front of me from a side road, I thought he'd carry on but he braked, so I went to swerve round in front of him, then he booted it. Took no time at all. Luckily I'm not a fkwit and have working brakes therefore was able to brake hard and avoid him.

Also nobody going fast on a bike is doing punishment passes, it's too risky because if you snag your handlebars on their coat or bag or whatever the next thing that happens is your teeth are hitting the road.



Edited by budgie smuggler on Tuesday 15th August 15:31

HerrSchnell

2,342 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
Maxf said:
budgie smuggler said:
2. cyclist shouts, woman panics and steps forward trying to get out of his way
3. cyclist turns to swerve around her, realises woman has stepped into his path, shouts again
4. cyclist swerves the other way to avoid her
5. woman reacts to 3, steps back into his path again
6. cyclist skids, can't scrub off enough speed to avoid her
7. collision
If they had time to do the foxtrot in the middle of the road, then he had time to stop, or make a bloody good attempt to. I bet he was trying to teach her a lesson by passing by as close and as quickly as he could, which ended up in hitting her.
In court he stated that he had time to shout "fk off out of my way" at her twice. Which prompted her to stop dead in front of him whereupon he then rode into her at an estimated 20 MPH.

Riding at 20MPH he would have been travelling at 30 feet per second. Assuming it takes three seconds to repeat that phrase twice and another two seconds for her to stop and him to then hit her that means he was 240 feet away when he first identified her as a hazard from among the crowded street.

He is either a psychic or a liar.

PurpleTurtle

6,940 posts

143 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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Lotobear said:
I'm a very keen cyclist myself, road and MTB, but have noted, as a driver, that a real militancy appears to have developed in cyclists over the last 10 or so years especially the roadie brigade.

There is very often a stubborn refusal not to tuck in when you approach groups of them from behind in a car and an 'own the road' sort of attitude which often borders on the aggressive. I know the arguments for this sort of riding but sometimes it comes over as pure bloody mindedness and only winds up other road users.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned (well I am over 50) but when I'm out with a group we always pull into single file when approached by cars - they invariably appreciate this and give us a wide berth and often a friendly wave.

This guy is a total prick and deserves all that comes to him. I'm afraid, IMHO, he seems to typify the arrogant attitude that appears to have come to prevail in many cyclists these days.

(not a DM reader by the way)
100% agree - likewise I'm a road/MTB/foldie rider, as well as car driver, motorcyclist and pedestrian - I like to think I see things from the perspective of all road users (HGV and bus drivers, I hear ya too!). This guy comes across as an utter prick.

ecsrobin

17,023 posts

164 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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HerrSchnell said:
In court he stated that he had time to shout "fk off out of my way" at her twice. Which prompted her to stop dead in front of him whereupon he then rode into her at an estimated 20 MPH.

Riding at 20MPH he would have been travelling at 30 feet per second. Assuming it takes three seconds to repeat that phrase twice and another two seconds for her to stop and him to then hit her that means he was 240 feet away when he first identified her as a hazard from among the crowded street.

He is either a psychic or a liar.
There must be plenty of witnesses around or as mentioned earlier CCTV to establish his story or lies.

budgie smuggler

5,359 posts

158 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
HerrSchnell said:
In court he stated that he had time to shout "fk off out of my way" at her twice. Which prompted her to stop dead in front of him whereupon he then rode into her at an estimated 20 MPH.

Riding at 20MPH he would have been travelling at 30 feet per second. Assuming it takes three seconds to repeat that phrase twice and another two seconds for her to stop and him to then hit her that means he was 240 feet away when he first identified her as a hazard from among the crowded street.

He is either a psychic or a liar.
If that's true he must be psychotic, the thing I read said he shouted "hey" then "out the way"

55palfers

5,893 posts

163 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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If he hit her at an estimated 20 mph, even he must have braked (a bit) so his initial speed may have been approaching 30?

Sa Calobra

37,010 posts

210 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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HerrSchnell said:
In court he stated that he had time to shout "fk off out of my way" at her twice. Which prompted her to stop dead in front of him whereupon he then rode into her at an estimated 20 MPH.

Riding at 20MPH he would have been travelling at 30 feet per second. Assuming it takes three seconds to repeat that phrase twice and another two seconds for her to stop and him to then hit her that means he was 240 feet away when he first identified her as a hazard from among the crowded street.

He is either a psychic or a liar.
Yup. According to CCTV she stepped out 3.8 secs before impact (source skynews). Counting that is long enough and not a surprise last moment step out.

All bikes should have brakes fitted. Relying on a fixie/back pedal to slow down is mental

Sa Calobra

37,010 posts

210 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/hert...

An historic article, any precedent? If it's applicable?

HerrSchnell

2,342 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
HerrSchnell said:
In court he stated that he had time to shout "fk off out of my way" at her twice. Which prompted her to stop dead in front of him whereupon he then rode into her at an estimated 20 MPH.

Riding at 20MPH he would have been travelling at 30 feet per second. Assuming it takes three seconds to repeat that phrase twice and another two seconds for her to stop and him to then hit her that means he was 240 feet away when he first identified her as a hazard from among the crowded street.

He is either a psychic or a liar.
Yup. According to CCTV she stepped out 3.8 secs before impact (source skynews). Counting that is long enough and not a surprise last moment step out.

All bikes should have brakes fitted. Relying on a fixie/back pedal to slow down is mental
So approximately 210 feet away then assuming no meaningful braking from 20MPH at the point this poor woman stepped off the kerb.

This looks worse and worse and I suspect the "punishment pass gone wrong" theory is correct, either that or he's a raging psychopath who intentionally ploughed her down for not getting out of his way.

HerrSchnell

2,342 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
budgie smuggler said:
HerrSchnell said:
In court he stated that he had time to shout "fk off out of my way" at her twice. Which prompted her to stop dead in front of him whereupon he then rode into her at an estimated 20 MPH.

Riding at 20MPH he would have been travelling at 30 feet per second. Assuming it takes three seconds to repeat that phrase twice and another two seconds for her to stop and him to then hit her that means he was 240 feet away when he first identified her as a hazard from among the crowded street.

He is either a psychic or a liar.
If that's true he must be psychotic, the thing I read said he shouted "hey" then "out the way"
Was quoted in the Metro as being verbatim from their court reporter.

dandarez

13,246 posts

282 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
Not read much about this but I did hear a witness testify that the cyclist had shouted to her to get out of the way. He didn't mention the f word.

Asides, the bit about no brakes on the front wheel. I don't know how they've changed recently but the principle must be the same.
Many years back I used to ride fixed wheels. Never had any front brakes for good reason. If you did have them fitted you avoided using them. If you did, and used them in anger, only one thing happened - you flew literally over the f........ front handlebars!

To stop was simple, but not easy. You applied braking force using both legs and bodyweight which resisted the rotation of the pedal crank, usually getting up off the saddle and standing up straight. We used to like fixed wheels (or fixies as they call them now) as kids simply because you could pedal and ride backwards!

One other point being missed here is the bloody mobile phone!
Only last month I nearly had 'another' dick on the front of my car bonnet - she simply stepped straight out into out into the road, eyes glued to her iPhone. Then she gives me a look to kill after I'd blown my horn.

Regardless of whether the idiot on the bike is at fault, perhaps too the story in question might be a lot different had she not been looking at her phone?

The numbers of dicks who walk around today, daily, eyes down glued to their phones is incredible.

Perhaps they think they are f invincible and the road safety onus is on everyone else?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
dandarez said:
Not read much about this but I did hear a witness testify that the cyclist had shouted to her to get out of the way. He didn't mention the f word.

Asides, the bit about no brakes on the front wheel. I don't know how they've changed recently but the principle must be the same.
Many years back I used to ride fixed wheels. Never had any front brakes for good reason. If you did have them fitted you avoided using them. If you did, and used them in anger, only one thing happened - you flew literally over the f........ front handlebars!

To stop was simple, but not easy. You applied braking force using both legs and bodyweight which resisted the rotation of the pedal crank, usually getting up off the saddle and standing up straight. We used to like fixed wheels (or fixies as they call them now) as kids simply because you could pedal and ride backwards!

One other point being missed here is the bloody mobile phone!
Only last month I nearly had 'another' dick on the front of my car bonnet - she simply stepped straight out into out into the road, eyes glued to her iPhone. Then she gives me a look to kill after I'd blown my horn.

Regardless of whether the idiot on the bike is at fault, perhaps too the story in question might be a lot different had she not been looking at her phone?

The numbers of dicks who walk around today, daily, eyes down glued to their phones is incredible.

Perhaps they think they are f invincible and the road safety onus is on everyone else?
Just why would being a fixed wheel bike cause a front brake to be so dangerous?

In any case many (most?) 'fixies' do have at least front brakes.

dandarez

13,246 posts

282 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
dandarez said:
Not read much about this but I did hear a witness testify that the cyclist had shouted to her to get out of the way. He didn't mention the f word.

Asides, the bit about no brakes on the front wheel. I don't know how they've changed recently but the principle must be the same.
Many years back I used to ride fixed wheels. Never had any front brakes for good reason. If you did have them fitted you avoided using them. If you did, and used them in anger, only one thing happened - you flew literally over the f........ front handlebars!

To stop was simple, but not easy. You applied braking force using both legs and bodyweight which resisted the rotation of the pedal crank, usually getting up off the saddle and standing up straight. We used to like fixed wheels (or fixies as they call them now) as kids simply because you could pedal and ride backwards!

One other point being missed here is the bloody mobile phone!
Only last month I nearly had 'another' dick on the front of my car bonnet - she simply stepped straight out into out into the road, eyes glued to her iPhone. Then she gives me a look to kill after I'd blown my horn.

Regardless of whether the idiot on the bike is at fault, perhaps too the story in question might be a lot different had she not been looking at her phone?

The numbers of dicks who walk around today, daily, eyes down glued to their phones is incredible.

Perhaps they think they are f invincible and the road safety onus is on everyone else?
Just why would being a fixed wheel bike cause a front brake to be so dangerous?

In any case many (most?) 'fixies' do have at least front brakes.
Well, as I said it was a long time ago, so perhaps set up on moderns is different now.
Mine did have front side pull brakes before removed - others simply released the cable end so it couldn't work - but you soon learnt never to use them alone if you needed to pull up quick, otherwise you were over the handlebars - been there, it f hurt! It was just instinct to pull that sole brake handle in an emergency. No different to a conventional braking system, use the front only hard, and where will you go? Same place!
I ended up going into an old iron gate with barbed wire all over it. So the front brake was rarely if ever used. The scars still remain. I got good at pulling up, by using legs and bodyweight on the pedals.

Bit like a car with no servo assistance - been there too! A situation looming that needs a ultra quick slowdown can release surprising amounts of untapped reserves of energy for pushing the brake pedal with the right foot!

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Tuesday 15th August 2017
quotequote all
The article says no front brakes, but are there any brakes at all? This was a "fixie" wasnt it? They don't have any means of braking apart from resistance to the forward motion via the pedals, dont they?
Any utterly absurd choice of bike in the city, or indeed in any public right of way. Utter .


rambo19

2,737 posts

136 months

Wednesday 16th August 2017
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Must admit, i'm 50/50 on this.

Cyclist is a knob for not having a front brake, and an even bigger knob for posting on the net what happened, but that seems to be the way of the world with people posting their lives on the net.

But the woman was 10 metres away from a crossing, yet choose not to use it, steps into road whilst on/playing with phone.
Part of me hopes the cyclist gets a not guilty.

Sad outcome for all involved.

TheInternet

4,703 posts

162 months

Wednesday 16th August 2017
quotequote all
dandarez said:
REALIST123 said:
Just why would being a fixed wheel bike cause a front brake to be so dangerous?
Mine did have front side pull brakes before removed - others simply released the cable end so it couldn't work - but you soon learnt never to use them alone if you needed to pull up quick, otherwise you were over the handlebars - been there, it f hurt! It was just instinct to pull that sole brake handle in an emergency. No different to a conventional braking system, use the front only hard, and where will you go? Same place!