Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..

[Kermit power]

AnotherClarkey said:

heebeegeetee said:

Interesting.

Well, I might as well start the debate by saying, not sure if it's the right sentence or not, but from everything I've seen over my past 30 odd years, it's massively more than a driver normally gets when he's killed someone on two wheels.

I can't help thinking this guy's been done for matters not directly linked to the collision itself, which whilst fully deserved, I'm not sure it's what the courts should be doing.

And now we only need wait for the usual numbnuts to come along and accuse me of defending the guy.

Most road users who kill aren't using unroadworthy, illegal, vehicles. If they were, sentences may be higher.

On what are you basing that claim?

I can't help thinking that the sort of tosser who decides that keeping their car taxed, insured and roadworthy is an optional extra is just the sort of tosser also likely to drive in a fashion more likely to cause fatal crashes...

[okgo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4892356/Lo...

This guy got marginally more than the cyclist, mad.

[heebeegeetee]

OpulentBob said:

Yet cyclist groups are demanding strict liability for drivers - arguably the hardest application of law.

This is only for compensation, nothing to with civil or criminal prosecutions.

It would only bring us inline with almost all of mainland Europe. https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2...

[anonymous-user]

Alliston is a vile tosser, but, having got that bit out of the way, there is an arguable case that cyclists who kill attract more public ire and disproportionate legal fury compared to drivers who kill. This piece makes the case in a reasonably measured way -


https://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/cycl...

[AnotherClarkey]

Kermit power said:

AnotherClarkey said:

heebeegeetee said:

Interesting.

Well, I might as well start the debate by saying, not sure if it's the right sentence or not, but from everything I've seen over my past 30 odd years, it's massively more than a driver normally gets when he's killed someone on two wheels.

I can't help thinking this guy's been done for matters not directly linked to the collision itself, which whilst fully deserved, I'm not sure it's what the courts should be doing.

And now we only need wait for the usual numbnuts to come along and accuse me of defending the guy.

Most road users who kill aren't using unroadworthy, illegal, vehicles. If they were, sentences may be higher.

On what are you basing that claim?

I can't help thinking that the sort of tosser who decides that keeping their car taxed, insured and roadworthy is an optional extra is just the sort of tosser also likely to drive in a fashion more likely to cause fatal crashes...

The bike in this case was never roadworthy or legal to use on the road, it is not simply that it was badly maintained or that things having been allowed to lapse.

[Stickyfinger]

heebeegeetee said:

This is only for compensation, nothing to with civil or criminal prosecutions.

It would only bring us inline with almost all of mainland Europe. https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2...

"As an English cycling accident lawyer" ~~~ "Every year, around 19,000 cyclists are killed or injured"

Slater and Gordon..........they need fast cars to chase those ambulances

[700BHP]

Breadvan72 said:

700BHP said:

Lance Catamaran said:

700BHP said:

Why at a young offenders institution?

Generally won't get sent to an "adult" prison until you're 21/22

How bizarre.

The clue is in the Y bit of YOI.

Considering all the things that you can do in the eyes of the law when you become an adult and turn 18, I don't see how you can, in the eyes of the law, be considered young at 20.

I also don't consider you worth interacting with further.

So I won't.

Bore someone else.

[anonymous-user]

Bit early in the afternoon for so much butthurt, doncha think?

On Planet Earth, I would call 20 and 21 year olds young people. So if such types offend, that makes them young offenders. The name of the gaff is not "Minors who are Offenders' Institution", or "Non adult Offenders Institution", or "Kidz Slammer R Us". If you have a beef with the policy, take it up with Parliament.

[anonymous-user]

I am a cyclist, if that matters

I think the punishment for is very much at the low end of things

Aggravating factors, specifically his behaviour immediately after the collision and right up to and including the court appearance, lead me to conclude his is a whole skin wasted

Not the sort that should be allowed to pollute the gene pool imo

[Robertj21a]

Breadvan72 said:

Bit early in the afternoon for so much butthurt, doncha think?

On Planet Earth, I would call 20 and 21 year olds young people. So if such types offend, that makes them young offenders. The name of the gaff is not "Minors who are Offenders' Institution", or "Non adult Offenders Institution", or "Kidz Slammer R Us". If you have a beef with the policy, take it up with Parliament.

I'm sure we can discuss things on a discussion forum without having to take it up with Parliament.
To my mind, it's quite difficult to see how anyone can be considered a Young Offender once they are over 18. I appreciate that you have given your point of view already - I'm sure you'd agree that others may view it differently.

[ClaphamGT3]

Breadvan72 said:

Bit early in the afternoon for so much butthurt, doncha think?

On Planet Earth, I would call 20 and 21 year olds young people. So if such types offend, that makes them young offenders. The name of the gaff is not "Minors who are Offenders' Institution", or "Non adult Offenders Institution", or "Kidz Slammer R Us". If you have a beef with the policy, take it up with Parliament.

No, no, no - you are getting this all wrong. In NP&E, Neanderthal-signalling matters.

You must accept that, in this world, foetal matter is deemed to be old enough to know right from wrong and that no infant is too young to be chucked in the slammer for such unspeakable crimes against humanity as rubbing up against a forum-dwellers P&J (washed with the two-bucket method dontcha no) or being insufficiently silent in Hawksmoor or whatever ghastly faux fine-dining experience the forum dwellers are currently spilling their seed over as a means to consume red meat

[anonymous-user]

Parliament took the view, it appears, that people do not instantly become fully mature adults at 18, and in the developed world it seems that childhood lasts longer and longer for some people. YOIs have similar regimes to adult prisons, but are supposed to place more emphasis on education. In reality, YOIs are sometimes harsher than adult prisons as YOIs are not always well run, so those that wish for a bit of extra judicial scragging for the cyclist may just get their wish.

Edit: Clapham - FPWM. What about that Thompson and Venables, eh? Hanging too good for them, etc [continue for 97 pages].

[Fast and Spurious]

Breadvan72 said:

Parliament took the view, it appears, that people do not instantly become fully mature adults at 18, and in the developed world it seems that childhood lasts longer and longer for some people. YOIs have similar regimes to adult prisons, but are supposed to place more emphasis on education. In reality, YOIs are sometimes harsher than adult prisons as YOIs are not always well run, so those that wish for a bit of extra judicial scragging for the cyclist may just get their wish.

Edit: Clapham - FPWM. What about that Thompson and Venables, eh? Hanging too good for them, etc [continue for 97 pages].

Thompson!!! Das ist Thompson!!!!

[FN2TypeR]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Breadvan72 said:

This is PH, Man! ORL SYCLISTS R S I mean, they are worse than Nazis!* Worse than Muslims even. Sheesh, everyone knows that.




* No offence intended to the many splendid and upright NPE'ers who are Nazis or have Nazi friends.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 18th September 14:16

I thought that the current perceived wisdom in NP&E was that 'uncle Adolf' was much maligned and had the right idea on most things, albeit a bit of a pinko and with worryingly bed-wetting tendencies vis a vis an integrated Europe....

A vegetarian and virtual tee-totaller that's fond of state ownership, far too left wing for my liking I'm afraid:

[Robertj21a]

Breadvan72 said:

Parliament took the view, it appears, that people do not instantly become fully mature adults at 18, and in the developed world it seems that childhood lasts longer and longer for some people. YOIs have similar regimes to adult prisons, but are supposed to place more emphasis on education. In reality, YOIs are sometimes harsher than adult prisons as YOIs are not always well run, so those that wish for a bit of extra judicial scragging for the cyclist may just get their wish.

Edit: Clapham - FPWM. What about that Thompson and Venables, eh? Hanging too good for them, etc [continue for 97 pages].

......so they're not sufficiently 'fully' mature at 18 to vote, or go to war on behalf of our country.......

[zarjaz1991]

Laurel Green said:

Not at-all. A place that one does not want to return to has to be better deterrent than a holiday camp they'll now find themselves in.

Modern prisons are not "holiday camps". Don't believe everything the tabloid press says.

[ClaphamGT3]

Robertj21a said:

Breadvan72 said:

Parliament took the view, it appears, that people do not instantly become fully mature adults at 18, and in the developed world it seems that childhood lasts longer and longer for some people. YOIs have similar regimes to adult prisons, but are supposed to place more emphasis on education. In reality, YOIs are sometimes harsher than adult prisons as YOIs are not always well run, so those that wish for a bit of extra judicial scragging for the cyclist may just get their wish.

Edit: Clapham - FPWM. What about that Thompson and Venables, eh? Hanging too good for them, etc [continue for 97 pages].

......so they're not sufficiently 'fully' mature at 18 to vote, or go to war on behalf of our country.......

I guess it depends whether you want influencable twenty year-olds to go to a finishing school for crime or to go to an environment where they might - just might - have a chance of being rehabilitated?

[zarjaz1991]

I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.

The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.

[saaby93]

700BHP said:

Breadvan72 said:

700BHP said:

Lance Catamaran said:

700BHP said:

Why at a young offenders institution?

Generally won't get sent to an "adult" prison until you're 21/22

How bizarre.

The clue is in the Y bit of YOI.

Considering all the things that you can do in the eyes of the law when you become an adult and turn 18, I don't see how you can, in the eyes of the law, be considered young at 20.

Was that the same time they decided anyone up to the age of 18 was still a child?

[anonymous-user]

zarjaz1991 said:

I'm not sure if this sentence is really the right way to go.

The lad is a bit of an imbecile frankly, but he's basically just a kid and now they will completely destroy his life by dumping him in a Borstal for a while. I'm sure it works as revenge and retribution but I'm unsure what else it really achieves.

The really stupid thing is he only had to show some remorse, say he was sorry, and he probably would be a free man today!