Cyclist likely to be convicted of manslaughter..
Discussion
FiF said:
Fastpedeller said:
fblm said:
Fastpedeller said:
...like with a manual car, when you lift the accelerator and it slows, and gives added stability around corners...
Why with a 2 wheel drive, because if the power is on and the 2 driven wheels suddenly find grip then the car will become unstable. For normal (not on the limit) driving it would seem prudent to be driving the wheels when cornering, but once a skid starts?
Bike are very different of course....... You can't fall OFF a car!
Fastpedeller said:
I believe the disengage the clutch technique is valid if you are driving a 2 wheel drive car, would it apply to a 4 wheel drive? I'm unsure.
Why with a 2 wheel drive, because if the power is on and the 2 driven wheels suddenly find grip then the car will become unstable. For normal (not on the limit) driving it would seem prudent to be driving the wheels when cornering, but once a skid starts?
Bike are very different of course....... You can't fall OFF a car!
Putting any braking or acceleration forces through a tyre limits the amount of cornering force it can provide, so by ensuring braking and accelerative forces are zero you can maximise the cornering force the tyres are capable of. It doesn't matter how many wheels are driven, the basic physics remains the same.Why with a 2 wheel drive, because if the power is on and the 2 driven wheels suddenly find grip then the car will become unstable. For normal (not on the limit) driving it would seem prudent to be driving the wheels when cornering, but once a skid starts?
Bike are very different of course....... You can't fall OFF a car!
I'd always though the lack of brakes, single gear and no freewheel hub on a track bike was to minimise weight?
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Donbot said:
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As I explained a few notes above....As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Why the yikes? Maybe some confusion? I was meaning the direct drive gives stability in corners (c/f a freewheel), not 'lifting off the accelerator in corners gives more stability' Sorry if that wasn't clear, but thought it would be obvious.
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As I explained a few notes above....As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Why the yikes? Maybe some confusion? I was meaning the direct drive gives stability in corners (c/f a freewheel), not 'lifting off the accelerator in corners gives more stability' Sorry if that wasn't clear, but thought it would be obvious.
This talk of cars and direct drive seems irrelevant. Especially when brakes act on the wheels in a more consistent way than a pulsing pedalling force (or purely frictional force when coasting).
Stickyfinger said:
oyster said:
The fact you open your post with the claim that ALL cyclists ignore the rules marks you out has having little to add.
I work near Smithfield and probably see less than 1 in 20 cyclists use the pedestrian-only bits.
That is a large numberI work near Smithfield and probably see less than 1 in 20 cyclists use the pedestrian-only bits.
Donbot said:
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As I explained a few notes above....As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Why the yikes? Maybe some confusion? I was meaning the direct drive gives stability in corners (c/f a freewheel), not 'lifting off the accelerator in corners gives more stability' Sorry if that wasn't clear, but thought it would be obvious.
This talk of cars and direct drive seems irrelevant. Especially when brakes act on the wheels in a more consistent way than a pulsing pedalling force (or purely frictional force when coasting).
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As I explained a few notes above....As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Why the yikes? Maybe some confusion? I was meaning the direct drive gives stability in corners (c/f a freewheel), not 'lifting off the accelerator in corners gives more stability' Sorry if that wasn't clear, but thought it would be obvious.
This talk of cars and direct drive seems irrelevant. Especially when brakes act on the wheels in a more consistent way than a pulsing pedalling force (or purely frictional force when coasting).
I could understand the situation considering that in sprint races the cadence is so high that there might be instances when the legs struggle to keep going at the rate required. If the back hub were freewheel could be a temporary loss of and reconnection of drive which might cause instability.
FiF said:
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As I explained a few notes above....As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Why the yikes? Maybe some confusion? I was meaning the direct drive gives stability in corners (c/f a freewheel), not 'lifting off the accelerator in corners gives more stability' Sorry if that wasn't clear, but thought it would be obvious.
This talk of cars and direct drive seems irrelevant. Especially when brakes act on the wheels in a more consistent way than a pulsing pedalling force (or purely frictional force when coasting).
I could understand the situation considering that in sprint races the cadence is so high that there might be instances when the legs struggle to keep going at the rate required. If the back hub were freewheel could be a temporary loss of and reconnection of drive which might cause instability.
has better sideways grip than a driving och braking wheel.
I also thought that no brakes and fixed gear on track bikes was to save weight.
Finlandia said:
FiF said:
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
Fastpedeller said:
Donbot said:
I've 'raced' at a velodrome and have ridden BMXs in parks for years. I don't believe that being able to freewheel on a banking would cause any problems whatsoever. It's fixed hub so the bikes don't need brakes to slow down in a reasonable distance.
As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
As I explained a few notes above....As for stability, on a motorbike, going round a corner with the throttle fully closed is the last thing you should be doing. ETA That has a lot to do with the change in suspension geometry, which doesn't apply to track bikes.
Edited by Donbot on Sunday 24th September 20:00
Why the yikes? Maybe some confusion? I was meaning the direct drive gives stability in corners (c/f a freewheel), not 'lifting off the accelerator in corners gives more stability' Sorry if that wasn't clear, but thought it would be obvious.
This talk of cars and direct drive seems irrelevant. Especially when brakes act on the wheels in a more consistent way than a pulsing pedalling force (or purely frictional force when coasting).
I could understand the situation considering that in sprint races the cadence is so high that there might be instances when the legs struggle to keep going at the rate required. If the back hub were freewheel could be a temporary loss of and reconnection of drive which might cause instability.
has better sideways grip than a driving och braking wheel.
I also thought that no brakes and fixed gear on track bikes was to save weight.
I've never ridden a bike on a banked track but there does seem to be some insistence about it helping stability which either has some foundation in fact, or may be just complete ballocks. Trying to throw a theory that may support, would be useful if someone could explain why, away from car analogies, because personal experience suggests application to cars doesn't make sense.
Stickyfinger said:
oyster said:
The fact you open your post with the claim that ALL cyclists ignore the rules marks you out has having little to add.
I work near Smithfield and probably see less than 1 in 20 cyclists use the pedestrian-only bits.
That is a large numberI work near Smithfield and probably see less than 1 in 20 cyclists use the pedestrian-only bits.
Edited by odie.mod on Tuesday 26th September 15:32
oyster said:
Stickyfinger said:
oyster said:
The fact you open your post with the claim that ALL cyclists ignore the rules marks you out has having little to add.
I work near Smithfield and probably see less than 1 in 20 cyclists use the pedestrian-only bits.
That is a large numberI work near Smithfield and probably see less than 1 in 20 cyclists use the pedestrian-only bits.
FiF said:
I've never ridden a bike on a banked track but there does seem to be some insistence about it helping stability which either has some foundation in fact, or may be just complete ballocks. Trying to throw a theory that may support, would be useful if someone could explain why, away from car analogies, because personal experience suggests application to cars doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure how a fixed hub would provide stability either. I'll ask my coach about it when I'm at the velodrome Wednesday if they have an opinion on this. AJL308 said:
Leaving aside the idea of testing (although I do agree with it) it has always puzzled me as to why cyclists aren't required to have any form of third party insurance. I fail to see any possible reasonable objection to it, quite frankly.
Do you have it as a pedestrian? If not, why not?will_ said:
AJL308 said:
Leaving aside the idea of testing (although I do agree with it) it has always puzzled me as to why cyclists aren't required to have any form of third party insurance. I fail to see any possible reasonable objection to it, quite frankly.
Do you have it as a pedestrian? If not, why not?will_ said:
AJL308 said:
Leaving aside the idea of testing (although I do agree with it) it has always puzzled me as to why cyclists aren't required to have any form of third party insurance. I fail to see any possible reasonable objection to it, quite frankly.
Do you have it as a pedestrian? If not, why not?Wonder if that works for cyclists too.
Edited by Angrybiker on Monday 25th September 16:53
Donbot said:
FiF said:
I've never ridden a bike on a banked track but there does seem to be some insistence about it helping stability which either has some foundation in fact, or may be just complete ballocks. Trying to throw a theory that may support, would be useful if someone could explain why, away from car analogies, because personal experience suggests application to cars doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure how a fixed hub would provide stability either. I'll ask my coach about it when I'm at the velodrome Wednesday if they have an opinion on this. Riding around a track is all about speed, as long as you are going fast enough you'll be OK.
Donbot said:
FiF said:
I've never ridden a bike on a banked track but there does seem to be some insistence about it helping stability which either has some foundation in fact, or may be just complete ballocks. Trying to throw a theory that may support, would be useful if someone could explain why, away from car analogies, because personal experience suggests application to cars doesn't make sense.
I'm not sure how a fixed hub would provide stability either. I'll ask my coach about it when I'm at the velodrome Wednesday if they have an opinion on this. Yes, strapped in shoes (whatever they are called) keep it more regular compared to a normal pedal bike, as you can pull as well as push each pedal, but it is still not a turbine smooth flow.
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