45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3

45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3

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Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Lucas Ayde said:
Let's see how this plays out for them. I'm guessing that it will remind employers of why getting their businesses tied up with a 'cause' is seldom a smart idea.
Where do you think both Parties get the majority of their funding from?

Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Efbe said:
are you always so annoying in these threads?

you generalise, claim anyone who questions even one thing is a massive trump fan and onl ever respond to the part of a post you think you can "win" to, never the question or point raised to you.
It's the modern PC way. Guess I'm lucky not to have been called a homophobic, white supremacist, nazi misogynist by now biggrin

Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Countdown said:
Where do you think both Parties get the majority of their funding from?
You'll find that businesses routinely bribe, I mean donate to, both parties in two party states. It's the basis of our corruptocracy.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Monday 25th September 2017
quotequote all
Efbe said:
are you always so annoying in these threads?

you generalise, claim anyone who questions even one thing is a massive trump fan and onl ever respond to the part of a post you think you can "win" to, never the question or point raised to you.
No. I thought his point was exceptionally stupid and I couldn't care less if he was a Trump fan or not.

If Colin Kapaernick wasn't a famous NFL player nobody would give a monkeys about him making a political gesture. That's why he did it and THAT'S why everybody is talking about it. He took a big risk doing it and (arguably) that's why he's currently unemployed. There's a whole separate debate there but to suggest that somebody shouldn't "do that sort of thing at work" is stupid, quite frankly. In the vast majority of workplaces there is no rule about what you can and can't do in terms of your personal politics.

Btw if there's any part of his point that you think I've Ignored, feel free to tell me and I'll respond.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Lucas Ayde said:
Countdown said:
Where do you think both Parties get the majority of their funding from?
You'll find that businesses routinely bribe, I mean donate to, both parties in two party states. It's the basis of our corruptocracy.
Which seems to run counter to your suggestion that Employers getting their businesses mixed up with Politics is a bad idea.....?

berlintaxi

8,535 posts

172 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Carl_Manchester said:
As a side note. I find it so incredulous and backward that nobody is talking about this apart from Trump that it beggars belief. I sometimes wonder when I put my tin hat on that if in-fact, the executives and shareholders of these huge companies, who have the most to lose and sponsor these players have a small hand in what is going on.

The only reason Trump is highlighting this is because it suits his usual tactic of distraction from something else more serious, typical con artist technique.

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Lucas Ayde said:
jjlynn27 said:
Tell you what, you, LA of PH fame, should write a letter explaining to those silly club owners what's good for their business. What do they know about business after all?
Let's see how this plays out for them. I'm guessing that it will remind employers of why getting their businesses tied up with a 'cause' is seldom a smart idea.
At least one of the employers (IE team owners) stood, arms linked, with his players.

And you still haven't commented on the point that pre 2009 players weren't required to stand. It was only after the US military got involved with the NFL financially that they were.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Lucas Ayde said:
There's a very practical financial reason for the "don't mix work with politics" societal convention - by affiliating your product with a political viewpoint you will inevitably hack off a section of potential customers.

Given that you're in business to make money, that's really the last thing you want to do. Undefined downside for practically no upside.
USA society is incredibly integrated with its military, its the norm for sporting stadiums and events to be used to honour the military and there is a great pride shown at these events in the nation state. They are integral to the USA politics played out at the time. You see politicians throwing the first ball in baseball during elections.........

It sounds like you have never attended a sporting event in the USA based on what you are saying. The national anthem before every game is normal, having military at the ground is normal, the stadium having an area where they honour the service of their local population to the country is normal.

This all came about after the Vietnam war, when soldiers came back from the conflict and were treated like dirt. The USA had a major think about that and now you see returning from conflict military treated with respect. USA is a very different place to the UK when it comes to public expressions of patriotism, the people in the USA wont see anything unusual for their sporting events to have political aspects to them.

Owners of teams in the NFL have already told Trump to shut his gob, what the players are doing with have zero impact on them.

This sort of thing is normal in the USA


Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Countdown said:
Which seems to run counter to your suggestion that Employers getting their businesses mixed up with Politics is a bad idea.....?
No - yet again you utterly have missed the point.


Getting associated with a typical political viewpoint is bad for business. How many businesses openly declare support for/ align with a given political party? Many are more than happy to quietly fund politicians of all sorts though (and sometimes line the pockets of specific ones) because they want to gain influence - but being seen to be openly associated with a 'side' isn't a good idea.

Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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jsf said:
USA society is incredibly integrated with its military, its the norm for sporting stadiums and events to be used to honour the military and there is a great pride shown at these events in the nation state. They are integral to the USA politics played out at the time. You see politicians throwing the first ball in baseball during elections.........

It sounds like you have never attended a sporting event in the USA based on what you are saying. The national anthem before every game is normal, having military at the ground is normal, the stadium having an area where they honour the service of their local population to the country is normal.

This all came about after the Vietnam war, when soldiers came back from the conflict and were treated like dirt. The USA had a major think about that and now you see returning from conflict military treated with respect. USA is a very different place to the UK when it comes to public expressions of patriotism, the people in the USA wont see anything unusual for their sporting events to have political aspects to them.

Owners of teams in the NFL have already told Trump to shut his gob, what the players are doing with have zero impact on them.

This sort of thing is normal in the USA
I'm fully aware of the disturbing militaristic hero-worship cult of showboating patriotism that pervades the US and increasingly pervades UK society too.

However, that's neither here nor there to my point about the players deciding to politically play-act for the cameras when they are being paid vast amounts of money to do a job.

I suspect that allowing this situation to develop WILL prove to have business consequences for the sporting bodies - aside from the fact that plenty of the people who lap up the militaristic/'patriotic trappings of the anthem and standing for it will be alienated (who, I stress again, I don't agree with) they have created a divisive political situation where one faction or another will take offence at whatever the business does and the bottom line will be hurt with NO potential upside for the business at all.





Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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rscott said:
How recently have you discussed Trump with Americans? I was in Atlanta last week and all those I spoke to about him (of all types, from white rural Georgians, through black Atlantans, Indian immigrants to Florida residents fleeing Irma) were united in the criticism of him. Even those who thought he might do a half decent job were clear that they thought he's simply not up to it.
JUst spent a month in the US, can't recall anything directly positive said about him. One guy who was well read and up on stuff reckoned he was needed/necessary or something, but didn't actually like him or think he was competent, just that there needs to be a catalyst for the next change.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Forget orange, things are going bananas!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/d...

Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Halb said:
JUst spent a month in the US, can't recall anything directly positive said about him. One guy who was well read and up on stuff reckoned he was needed/necessary or something, but didn't actually like him or think he was competent, just that there needs to be a catalyst for the next change.
That would be my view. The guy is a weapons grade, egotistical BSer of the sort typically found in the upper echilons of management but he at least offered a non-political establishment choice and gave voice to a chunk of the electorate who had become disenchanted with the utterly corrupt corporate cronyist system, of which Hilary Clinton was the ultimate avatar. Too bad he turned around and said and did the exact opposite of much of what he was saying on his campaign trail.

Hopefully this means that there will be some sort of meaningful change in the two party charade that's used to fool the public into thinking they have a choice and keep them reasonably compliant and tax-paying. Bernie Sanders was only kept out of being the other contender by a massive amount of corrupt vote-rigging on the democrate side. Next time around, the public might not be so willing to blindly vote for one of the two establishment options.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Lucas Ayde said:
I'm fully aware of the disturbing militaristic hero-worship cult of showboating patriotism that pervades the US and increasingly pervades UK society too.

However, that's neither here nor there to my point about the players deciding to politically play-act for the cameras when they are being paid vast amounts of money to do a job.

I suspect that allowing this situation to develop WILL prove to have business consequences for the sporting bodies - aside from the fact that plenty of the people who lap up the militaristic/'patriotic trappings of the anthem and standing for it will be alienated (who, I stress again, I don't agree with) they have created a divisive political situation where one faction or another will take offence at whatever the business does and the bottom line will be hurt with NO potential upside for the business at all.
Have you ever spent any significant time in the USA and got to know people out there?

I ask this because your view of how the American people I know well think is so far off the scale of that I have experienced.

I know a wide range of people out there from a diverse level of income and cultural background and you are completely overstating the position on this one, They don't care about people expressing themselves. During the Bush freedom fries nonsense some of the less thinking got wound up a bit but that's ancient history.

Not-The-Messiah

3,611 posts

80 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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jsf said:
Have you ever spent any significant time in the USA and got to know people out there?

I ask this because your view of how the American people I know well think is so far off the scale of that I have experienced.

I know a wide range of people out there from a diverse level of income and cultural background and you are completely overstating the position on this one, They don't care about people expressing themselves. During the Bush freedom fries nonsense some of the less thinking got wound up a bit but that's ancient history.
Anyone who says they think they know how an entire nation thinks because they spent a few weeks in a country taking to 0.00000001% of the population are just idiots.

"I spent a week in america going to places and establishments filled with people that I feel comfortable with, and now I have anecdotal evidence on how an entire nation thinks". yeah OK pal.

Beati Dogu

8,862 posts

138 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Hipster metropolitan dinner party types probably aren't the ones attending american football games anyway. Disgracing their country like this is definitely going to have consequences. These players are extremely well paid & only expected to work for a few minutes at a time, a minimum of 16 days a year. Yet they feel the need to virtue signal like the equally clueless Hollywood set.

Their attendance figures have already been dropping and after this latest stunt, many more of the public will just vote with their feet & spend their leisure time & money elsewhere. The NFL's loss will be other sports' gain.


rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Beati Dogu said:
Hipster metropolitan dinner party types probably aren't the ones attending american football games anyway. Disgracing their country like this is definitely going to have consequences. These players are extremely well paid & only expected to work for a few minutes at a time, a minimum of 16 days a year. Yet they feel the need to virtue signal like the equally clueless Hollywood set.

Their attendance figures have already been dropping and after this latest stunt, many more of the public will just vote with their feet & spend their leisure time & money elsewhere. The NFL's loss will be other sports' gain.
A baseball player also kneeled during the anthem last weekend. How long before more do and if the MLS stars also join in...

GCH

3,984 posts

201 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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rscott said:
A baseball player also kneeled during the anthem last weekend. How long before more do and if the MLS stars also join in...
NBA preseason and regular season soon also... and NHL.

minimoog

6,857 posts

218 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Beati Dogu said:
Disgracing their country like this
Hand-wringing drama queenery at its finest right there.

minimoog

6,857 posts

218 months

Monday 25th September 2017
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Not-The-Messiah said:
Anyone who says they think they know how an entire nation thinks because they spent a few weeks in a country taking to 0.00000001% of the population are just idiots.

"I spent a week in america going to places and establishments filled with people that I feel comfortable with, and now I have anecdotal evidence on how an entire nation thinks". yeah OK pal.
I think the idiot is the one saying that 'that's not my experience' is the same as 'I know how an entire nation thinks'.

BTW which returning banee are you again?
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