Incident in Finland

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Discussion

Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
Jonesy23 said:
Finlandia said:
Cobnapint said:
Yes, but it's not about religion. At all. In any way whatsoever.
The attacker(s) is doing it in the name of religion, how can that then not have anything to do with religion?
I think we need a sarcasm tag.

(In more general terms it's a point about some of the arguments some people try to make to claim the attackers aren't motivated by their religion. Also because any time we have one of these threads and religion crops up it starts an argument and the thread gets locked. So let's please keep this factual and avoid the religious aspect for the moment.)
Yeah, i realise that now biggrin

It's just that this hit a bit too close to home for me, and quite frankly I'm really fking pissed off at religion now.
Yeah, that happens. Nothing will change though and it's just the beginning.

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
rscott said:
Finlandia said:
pc.iow said:
rscott said:
Reuters reporting the local police as saying they're not treating this as a terrorist attack at present - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-finland-stabbin... .

Local media reports it was a woman pushing a baby in a stroller who was attacked, not the actual baby. There's also some doubt about the Allahu Akbar claims - apparently the Finnish for 'watch out'/beware sounds very similar.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/turku-finland-isis-i...
Sounds very similar, and means pretty much the same.
Varokaa vs. Allahu Akbar. Not sure that sounds similar.
I only quoted one of a few news reports. As other have posted, situation has developed and is now being treated as a terror attack.
Interesting to watch all the rightwing nutjobs rushing in and hoping it's a terror attack...

And all the leftwing nutjobs rushing in and hoping it's not a terror attack...

Cobnapint

8,598 posts

150 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
Jonesy23 said:
Finlandia said:
Cobnapint said:
Yes, but it's not about religion. At all. In any way whatsoever.
The attacker(s) is doing it in the name of religion, how can that then not have anything to do with religion?
I think we need a sarcasm tag.

(In more general terms it's a point about some of the arguments some people try to make to claim the attackers aren't motivated by their religion. Also because any time we have one of these threads and religion crops up it starts an argument and the thread gets locked. So let's please keep this factual and avoid the religious aspect for the moment.)
Yeah, i realise that now biggrin

It's just that this hit a bit too close to home for me, and quite frankly I'm really fking pissed off at religion now.
thumbup

You saved yourself a squadron of parrots there.

On a more serious note, the whole of the civilised world is right with you with the pissed off sentiment.

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Colonial said:
PRTVR said:
The BBC are now covering it, a British paramedic attempted to help one of the victims and was stabbed himself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40987854
I'm actually kinds glad they established what it was first.
Personally I think it it should be reported immediately, with the facts as they are known,then updated as things progress, I cannot see a reason to delay the reporting.

Colonial

13,553 posts

204 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Personally I think it it should be reported immediately, with the facts as they are known,then updated as things progress, I cannot see a reason to delay the reporting.
Isn't that what they did though?

Reported the facts in terms of causality numbers until they had confirmation of motive?

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Colonial said:
PRTVR said:
Personally I think it it should be reported immediately, with the facts as they are known,then updated as things progress, I cannot see a reason to delay the reporting.
Isn't that what they did though?

Reported the facts in terms of causality numbers until they had confirmation of motive?
As far as I am aware it was not reported on the TV news channels till today.

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
From what I've seen of the coverage of this and the Spanish attacks the UK media seem to be taking a more sober view rather than exporting the whole news team to the city involved and having almost 24hrs rolling coverage.

Which I think is a good thing, report it, cover it but don't fill the whole program with it.


Wobbegong

15,077 posts

168 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
From what I've seen of the coverage of this and the Spanish attacks the UK media seem to be taking a more sober view rather than exporting the whole news team to the city involved and having almost 24hrs rolling coverage.

Which I think is a good thing, report it, cover it but don't fill the whole program with it.

Plus I think it's not as shocking as it used to be. A few years ago everyone would be chatting about events like this, now it's no surprise as it is expected.

steveT350C

6,728 posts

160 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
So the 18 yr old Moroccan was an asylum seeker..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40985528

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
steveT350C said:
So the 18 yr old Moroccan was an asylum seeker..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40985528
"At a later press briefing, they said the suspect had arrived in Finland in 2016 and had "been part of the asylum process""

Morocco may not be the nicest part of the world but it's hardly a warzone like Syria or Iraq. Nor is it suffering from a famine, drought etc.

So why would you even entertain his asylum application in the first place? Had he been turned away and returned to his place of origin sooner then there would be two more Finnish citizens alive today.

Moroccans are causing problems in Germany too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/g...

Cobnapint

8,598 posts

150 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
steveT350C said:
So the 18 yr old Moroccan was an asylum seeker..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40985528
We need to arrest the person that allowed him and others like him in....

I think she's hiding in Germany....

Fat Fairy

503 posts

185 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Was he a promising footballer too?

FF

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Jonesy23 said:
Finlandia said:
Cobnapint said:
Yes, but it's not about religion. At all. In any way whatsoever.
The attacker(s) is doing it in the name of religion, how can that then not have anything to do with religion?
I think we need a sarcasm tag.

(In more general terms it's a point about some of the arguments some people try to make to claim the attackers aren't motivated by their religion. Also because any time we have one of these threads and religion crops up it starts an argument and the thread gets locked. So let's please keep this factual and avoid the religious aspect for the moment.)
An alternative being to concentrate on the aspects of psychosis that drive these attacks e.g. hearing voices, visions and delusions; all symptoms of someone suffering from a psychosis i.e. a form of mental illness

Oakey

27,524 posts

215 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
They're mentally ill are they, every single one of them? The 12 people and the imam in Spain who plotted those attacks, they're just nutters hearing voices?

Boydie88

3,283 posts

148 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Oakey said:
They're mentally ill are they, every single one of them? The 12 people and the imam in Spain who plotted those attacks, they're just nutters hearing voices?
Don't make it about religion, it will get shut down lie the Spain thread.

A thread about religion inspired terrorism must not reference religion.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Oakey said:
They're mentally ill are they, every single one of them? The 12 people and the imam in Spain who plotted those attacks, they're just nutters hearing voices?
Well they're hardly sane by any reasonable definition. If the "nutters hearing voices" (NHV) present a risk to the themselves or the general public then the NHV to be detained in a secure institution, perhaps indefinitely.

Oakey

27,524 posts

215 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
V8 Fettler said:
Well they're hardly sane by any reasonable definition. If the "nutters hearing voices" (NHV) present a risk to the themselves or the general public then the NHV to be detained in a secure institution, perhaps indefinitely.
I think that's a little insulting to the people who genuinely suffer from mental illness to be honest. Of the 12 Barcelona suspects there were four sets of brothers, they can't all suffer from mental illness and psychosis that results in hearing voices and seeing things, what are the chances of that? You don't think the fact they had ties to an Imam linked to ISIS may be the connecting factor here?

And you might think they're insane because of their actions but they're from a part of the world where a woman might be stoned because her skirt is too short or a gay couple may be beaten half to death.


Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
It also makes excuses.

There is no excuse for their actions - unless the thing we can't mention is the driver behind these actions, then we need to address that directly.

And stop making excuses for not dealing with the root cause, whatever that maybe.

Colonial

13,553 posts

204 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
V8 Fettler said:
Well they're hardly sane by any reasonable definition. If the "nutters hearing voices" (NHV) present a risk to the themselves or the general public then the NHV to be detained in a secure institution, perhaps indefinitely.
Tjere os the possibility that Finland (and Melbourne for that matter) were carried out by actual nutters as lone wolf attacks.

Spain is clearly not the same.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Monday 21st August 2017
quotequote all
Colonial said:
V8 Fettler said:
Well they're hardly sane by any reasonable definition. If the "nutters hearing voices" (NHV) present a risk to the themselves or the general public then the NHV to be detained in a secure institution, perhaps indefinitely.
Tjere os the possibility that Finland (and Melbourne for that matter) were carried out by actual nutters as lone wolf attacks.

Spain is clearly not the same.
https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9787870

Turun puukottajasta vihjattiin poliisille etukäteen – vaikutti radikalisoituneelta, oli kiinnostunut ääriajattelusta

Google translate:
The Turku stabber was reported to the police in advance - he seemed radicalized, interested in extreme thinking