Spanish Police Response To The Terrorist Attacks In Spain
Discussion
dro
said:
said: And the "do-gooders" in these types of situation are actually the do-badders, the type of people that think terrorists should have the same human rights as the rest of us.
A very warped mindset.
Yes, I agree. A very warped mindset. A very warped mindset.
If there are indeed human rights, they should extend to everyone by definition.
Derek Smith said:
What would have happened if five terrorists in a car were stopped by a PC in, well pick your own seaside town? I know what would happen a few days later. Officers would be told to be armed.
To me that pretty much sums up my perception of where we're at right now.I don't know quite what the split is between money, police resistance, public resistance, or perhaps the simple logistics of what the hell do you do if 60% of your employees are incapable of being firearms trained to a sufficiently high standard, but at some point something will happen somewhere where the effectiveness of Police response will be a factor.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Derek Smith said:
What would have happened if five terrorists in a car were stopped by a PC in, well pick your own seaside town? I know what would happen a few days later. Officers would be told to be armed.
To me that pretty much sums up my perception of where we're at right now.I don't know quite what the split is between money, police resistance, public resistance, or perhaps the simple logistics of what the hell do you do if 60% of your employees are incapable of being firearms trained to a sufficiently high standard, but at some point something will happen somewhere where the effectiveness of Police response will be a factor.
My county has 150 officers per 100k public. Spain has 380 so you can see that the usefulness of having every agreeing officer armed is likely to be low. There is, as another poster suggested, a resistance for officers to be armed now, and that's where firearms officers have a high degree of training. The cost implications for training if, say, another 20% of officers were armed is quite prohibitive at the present time.
If a substantial number of officers were armed there would probably be an increase in the number of firearms incidents. One of the reasons that officers are reluctant to strap a gun on is the way such shootings are handled post incident. It is not only the officers themselves who are in the frame but command officers as well. I don't want to be accused of using anecdotes (although one might think of these as examples) but an action that would go unremarked, or even praised, when everything goes right should not be the subject of an investigation that drags on for years and results in the CPS being criticised for prosecuting officers without evidence. There should never be the situation of a judge at a pre-trial hearing saying to three defendants not to worry as there's not a prima facie case.
The officers did not blame the CPS as such. It was obviously a decision forced on them by the then government. It was one that stopped many officers putting themselves forward for the armed units.
It's difficult to see a way around the series of blocks to having a police force that is generally armed.
The government will not want to lose face by upping recruitment to overcome the chronic shortage of officers. They will continue to set different standards of evidence for police than the general public. So a police officer with any sense will not put his job, his health, his freedom and his reputation in the hands of politically motivated HomeSecs and refuse to have a gun.
Spain seems to do it with some degree of aplomb. We should look into the differences between the way their forces work and ours. It's not as if we are that dissimilar. We have both had a native terrorist cell causing major incidents. We've both handled them well overall. It is received wisdom that policing in this country (England/Wales) is the best in the world. Is that true? It's the cheapest of any EU country by any number of measurements.
This isn't a criticism of the police response, but something that bothers me about a lot (not all) of the perpetrators is their age.
Far too many of them are teenagers. And often enough the atrocity perpetrators (esp. belt bombers) in places like the Middle East and Africa are primary school age children.
Can't see how they really know what they're doing, and really that just makes them victims too, like child soldiers.
How would a UK armed cop respond to a belt wearing little 10 year old girl, or a primary schoolkid waving an AK47 around?
Far too many of them are teenagers. And often enough the atrocity perpetrators (esp. belt bombers) in places like the Middle East and Africa are primary school age children.
Can't see how they really know what they're doing, and really that just makes them victims too, like child soldiers.
How would a UK armed cop respond to a belt wearing little 10 year old girl, or a primary schoolkid waving an AK47 around?
La Liga said:
It appears to be quite a large cell / conspiracy, planned over quite a few months.
The intelligence services over there may be concerned they didn't get wind of it.
I'm told that their intelligence service was very efficient, at least at the times of their troubles.The intelligence services over there may be concerned they didn't get wind of it.
An explosion in a building that was at first put down to a gas explosion. Now, it seems, it was a premature bomb explosion and there might be bodies that haven't been discovered yet.
I've got one or two problems with that. But then it might just be me. It seems very convenient though.
Derek Smith said:
I'm told that their intelligence service was very efficient, at least at the times of their troubles.
An explosion in a building that was at first put down to a gas explosion. Now, it seems, it was a premature bomb explosion and there might be bodies that haven't been discovered yet.
I've got one or two problems with that. But then it might just be me. It seems very convenient though.
Beeb says two bodies found in the house, both been identified....but nothing more.An explosion in a building that was at first put down to a gas explosion. Now, it seems, it was a premature bomb explosion and there might be bodies that haven't been discovered yet.
I've got one or two problems with that. But then it might just be me. It seems very convenient though.
Edited by King Herald on Monday 21st August 07:41
AW111 said:
dro said:
said: And the "do-gooders" in these types of situation are actually the do-badders, the type of people that think terrorists should have the same human rights as the rest of us.
A very warped mindset.
So you think terrorists should have no human rights? A very warped mindset.
Who defines what a terrorist is?
Oh my my, oh hell NO!
None at all.
Why?
BlackLabel said:
King Herald said:
Beeb says two bodies found in the house, both been identified....but nothing more.
Well, I think it was described as 'biological remains', but yes, two dead [and I recall mention of a woman and severely injured person originally?]Edited by King Herald on Monday 21st August 07:41
Cold said:
Spanish police have shot someone believed to be the driver, with unconfirmed reports of another "mock suicide vest". Happened to the west of Barcelona.
Apparently he too wanted directions to Alan's Snackbarhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41004603
HairyPoppins said:
Cold said:
Spanish police have shot someone believed to be the driver, with unconfirmed reports of another "mock suicide vest". Happened to the west of Barcelona.
Apparently he too wanted directions to Alan's Snackbarhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41004603
rscott said:
HairyPoppins said:
Cold said:
Spanish police have shot someone believed to be the driver, with unconfirmed reports of another "mock suicide vest". Happened to the west of Barcelona.
Apparently he too wanted directions to Alan's Snackbarhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41004603
...it tickles a little so 
That's a pretty big terror cell that, it seems, has been dismantled. The wearing of clothing that aped bomb vests seems confirmation that they wanted to be shot. The police would have preferred them alive of course, but from the information they had no choice but to shoot them, including the one today. Mind you, they have a number of prisoners so one assumes these will be interrogated.
I was surprised that the wanted chap had not fled the country or at least found a 'safe' house. It could be that there were no other person he could turn to.
Despite me thinking that if anyone deserved to die, the driver did, I'm sorry he's dead. He should suffer for his obscene behaviour. This way he has, unfortunately, got away with it.
Impressive performance by the Spanish police. But, of course, multiple deaths means that the terrorists have got their way. The response of the public has been positive. Perhaps a certain amount of good can come from the tragedy.
I was surprised that the wanted chap had not fled the country or at least found a 'safe' house. It could be that there were no other person he could turn to.
Despite me thinking that if anyone deserved to die, the driver did, I'm sorry he's dead. He should suffer for his obscene behaviour. This way he has, unfortunately, got away with it.
Impressive performance by the Spanish police. But, of course, multiple deaths means that the terrorists have got their way. The response of the public has been positive. Perhaps a certain amount of good can come from the tragedy.
HairyPoppins said:
rscott said:
HairyPoppins said:
Cold said:
Spanish police have shot someone believed to be the driver, with unconfirmed reports of another "mock suicide vest". Happened to the west of Barcelona.
Apparently he too wanted directions to Alan's Snackbarhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41004603
...it tickles a little so t they say.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff