J Hunt and S Hawking - how do we know...

J Hunt and S Hawking - how do we know...

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Discussion

motco

Original Poster:

15,919 posts

245 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
... that the opinions on the NHS and Mr Hunt MP attributed to Stephen Hawking are really his? Just because his voice synthesiser speaks does it actually guarantee it's Hawking's thoughts being expressed? How powerful as a political tool is his computer - he could hardly complain or resist, could he?

Just asking.... wobble

andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
motco said:
... that the opinions on the NHS and Mr Hunt MP attributed to Stephen Hawking are really his? Just because his voice synthesiser speaks does it actually guarantee it's Hawking's thoughts being expressed? How powerful as a political tool is his computer - he could hardly complain or resist, could he?

Just asking.... wobble
Yes, maybe his anti-AI stance is a double bluff by the 'brain' controlling Hawking... scratchchin

Lance Catamaran

24,942 posts

226 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
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Not-The-Messiah

3,611 posts

80 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
I dislike the way the press give Hawkings views gravitas and importance. Yes he's a clever guy in a specifically feild. But that intelligence does not always translate into other topics. Lots of people have the thought process "he's a clever guy so he must know what he's talking about" the media included. We've all seen people with autism and Asperger's who can be highly intelligent in one field. Doesn't mean you would expect their advice on other subjects.

I remember a few months ago when he commented on climate change. The press then give his views large amounts coverage even though some of his claims were then exposed as nonsense from actual climate scientists.



Edited by Not-The-Messiah on Sunday 20th August 10:59

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Hawking is commentating on his speciality: scientific research and how it should be interpreted. Hunt has shown himself to be way, way behind on his understanding of research. Hunt picked the results that favoured his agenda. He suggested that Hawking is goo at what he does, ie interpreting research, and then suggests he can't interpret research.


andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Not-The-Messiah said:
I dislike the way the press give Hawkings views gravitas and importance. Yes he's a clever guy in a specifically feild. But that intelligence does not always translate into other topics.
You could say the same about any politician - except the 'clever guy' bit - Defence one day, Health the next - instant expert on any subject - just add 'MP' after your name.

Jonesy23

4,650 posts

135 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Hawking is commentating on his speciality: scientific research and how it should be interpreted. Hunt has shown himself to be way, way behind on his understanding of research. Hunt picked the results that favoured his agenda. He suggested that Hawking is goo at what he does, ie interpreting research, and then suggests he can't interpret research.
Sorry but 'interpreting research' is just some made up catch all that people created in an attempt to give Hawking's views on this some value.

He's a theoretical physicist. His speciality is theoretical physics. He can interpret research on theoretical physics, though original work was his forte. If I gave him a research paper on some aspect of biochemistry (for example) he wouldn't be able to give an useful reaction to it beyond the way the paper was structured and the spelling.

Hunt may or may not be full of crap; I'm not interested enough to check. But bringing Stephen Hawking up as some genius reference point for everything is nonsense.


voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Hawking calls out Hunt for only using some research papers.

Hawking only uses some papers to forward his ideas on climate change

The common factor Hawking as an agenda.

(and is a hypocrite)

Toaster

2,938 posts

192 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Prof Hawking is spot on:

So do you remember the story of the porter who rolled his trousers up because it was so hot? This seems to be a reasonable request, but denied by 'Management':

"Hospital workers in Watford General hospital who asked their managers for permission to wear three quarter length trousers because of the intense heat were told to keep wearing their normal black combat trousers. Yesterday, 21st June 2017, a worker was suspended from work for rolling his trousers up, disciplinary action may follow."

The news said it was the NHS

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3861257/nhs-hospital...

However it is clear the Porter works for a contractor Medirest:

http://www.gmb.org.uk/newsroom-trouser-leg-suspens...

Who is Medirest:

http://www.medirest.co.uk/who-is-medirest.aspx

Medirest is owned by the Compass Group:

and don't tell me that the sponsored research between nutrition and dementia isn't out of self interest so that Compass supplies the 'right' meals to the NHS
http://www.medirest.co.uk/compass-group-helps-to-i...

The Compass Group https://www.compass-group.co.uk

Compass pays £1bn special dividend as profits climb
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/10/com...

Personally id love to see those UK profits ploughed back in to the NHS rather than to shareholder pockets

Now tell me if Prof Hawking is wrong.............

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Jonesy23 said:
Hunt may or may not be full of crap; I'm not interested enough to check. But bringing Stephen Hawking up as some genius reference point for everything is nonsense.
I have to admit I had a similar reaction.

I've every admiration for Stephen Hawking as an expert in his field but, and happy to be corrected if people can point me to any detail, everything I've heard so far from Hawking doesn't seem to be evidence based but rather his opinion.

Interesting how the media frame it as yesterday on the radio it was reported as Hunt "attacking" Hawking for his comments.

Toaster

2,938 posts

192 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
Hawking calls out Hunt for only using some research papers.

Hawking only uses some papers to forward his ideas on climate change

The common factor Hawking as an agenda.

(and is a hypocrite)
Do your own research:
Maybe this will help you start your research:

Virgin Health Care Sues NHS for loosing contract.
https://www.ft.com/content/297e7714-089f-11e7-97d1...

How many GP surgeries have had to close after the government changed funding rules?

Here's another one:

A GP practice in Essex rated outstanding by the CQC will be taken over next month by the private provider Virgin Care after £400,000 cuts to PMS funding forced existing partners to hand in their notice.

http://www.gponline.com/virgin-set-outstanding-gp-...

Tell me that the private sector isn't taking over the NHS!!!!!


rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
Jonesy23 said:
Hunt may or may not be full of crap; I'm not interested enough to check. But bringing Stephen Hawking up as some genius reference point for everything is nonsense.
I have to admit I had a similar reaction.

I've every admiration for Stephen Hawking as an expert in his field but, and happy to be corrected if people can point me to any detail, everything I've heard so far from Hawking doesn't seem to be evidence based but rather his opinion.

Interesting how the media frame it as yesterday on the radio it was reported as Hunt "attacking" Hawking for his comments.
Agreed. If Hawking can show his reasoning behind his views (as others who share them have done on some issues) then he should carry on shouting them.

Far as I can see, that should be pretty straightforward - isn't the claim by Hunt that more admissions die at weekends, so we need a 7 day NHS. The rebuttal is that most weekend admissions are urgent and hence more likely to die anyway, no matter which day they're admitted. There just aren't the number of 'normal' admissions at weekends to balance those out.


Emanresu

311 posts

88 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
I've seen a few videos on YouTube recently and if you believe what they say, Stephen hawking died years ago. What you have now is either a robot dummy or a drugged up lookalike vegetable who does nothing more than provide a physical presence. The computer speech thing is controlled by a guy with a keyboard in the back room which there is also apparently footage of. There also the fact that nobody with ALS lives that long. Videos are reasonably well put together and show many reasons why the theories could be true.

What do I personally think? Meh. Couldn't care less.

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Toaster said:
Do your own research:
Maybe this will help you start your research:

Virgin Health Care Sues NHS for loosing contract.
https://www.ft.com/content/297e7714-089f-11e7-97d1...

How many GP surgeries have had to close after the government changed funding rules?

Here's another one:

A GP practice in Essex rated outstanding by the CQC will be taken over next month by the private provider Virgin Care after £400,000 cuts to PMS funding forced existing partners to hand in their notice.

http://www.gponline.com/virgin-set-outstanding-gp-...

Tell me that the private sector isn't taking over the NHS!!!!!

But are the already privatised parts of the NHS performing better or worse than the traditional NHS.

After all dentistry, optometry and hearing are already mostly 'privatised'. NHS contracts fulfilled by none NHS firms.

My mother chose to get her hip replacements done in a private hospital funded by the NHS and reduced the waiting time to 2 weeks, was in a private room (as she stated like staying in a hotel) and had room service for meals (what and when she wanted). And I am lead to believe this happens because the private provider is cheaper than internal NHS.

And don't forget your NHS prescription is more often than not fulfilled by a private pharmacy under contract to the NHS.

Both sides can show the other fails. Hasn't one hospital recent been so badly run the government has had to step in. One private hospital has handed its contract back.

The correct privatisation can be a good idea.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all

motco

Original Poster:

15,919 posts

245 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
What Hawking's voice computer was programmed to say..


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/aug/18/st...
FTFY smile

Toaster

2,938 posts

192 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
But are the already privatised parts of the NHS performing better or worse than the traditional NHS.


The correct privatisation can be a good idea.
No ! This is post take over of said Surgery http://www.nhs.uk/Services/GP/ReviewsAndRatings/De...

It not about Correct privatisation its about process, and private hospitals do not carry out the full range of services the NHS does. and the same surgeons in the NHS also work for the priviate ones your mother would have probably had the same surge in the NHS as the Private practice.....

dickymint

24,097 posts

257 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Emanresu said:
.........and his real name is Davros!

Not-The-Messiah

3,611 posts

80 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
To say Hawkings has made it the 75 with his medical problems goes to show the NHS cant be that bad. I'm sure hes only ever used NHS services and never used these so called evil privet medical services by choice himself?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 20th August 2017
quotequote all
Not-The-Messiah said:
To say Hawkings has made it the 75 with his medical problems goes to show the NHS cant be that bad. I'm sure hes only ever used NHS services and never used these so called evil privet medical services by choice himself?
But, but, but, but...
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/hawking_b...