London Underground Incident
Discussion
Laurel Green said:
Not if Diane Abbot was doing the mathsCobnapint said:
Username888 said:
Anyway - back to the original question. Why are the establish so reluctant to do anything?
They're not. It's gonna be sorted soon! Enough is enough Theresa said - and I believe her![Stares at TV waiting for some news on what is being done]......
rscott said:
Didn't you know .. she's going to solve it by making Facebook, etc clamp down on extremism. Not quite sure how that's going to work when the site most used by Islamic extremists doesn't cooperate with the security services...
Perhaps get the uncooperative site shut down? Or better, heavily monitored?I'm not really sure what the solutions are against terrorism. Terrorism is geared to impinge on liberty if you wish to do anything about it.
Education etc is all well and good, and needs focus. But it will never be a comprehensive solution. And whenever impinging further on liberties is mentioned, people get riled.
Out of genuine interest, what would you do?
The difficult issue with Islam extremist terror is that as many of its supporters and perpetrators are UK born as they are first generation immigrant. The reasons for this are manifold and chronic, but nonetheless need observation, analysis and action to detect as well as prevent.
Right now, there's not much the authorities can 'do' with a second generation, British born immigrant, until or unless they actually break the law. With first generation immigrants, it is simpler of course.
Right now, there's not much the authorities can 'do' with a second generation, British born immigrant, until or unless they actually break the law. With first generation immigrants, it is simpler of course.
Murph7355 said:
rscott said:
Didn't you know .. she's going to solve it by making Facebook, etc clamp down on extremism. Not quite sure how that's going to work when the site most used by Islamic extremists doesn't cooperate with the security services...
Perhaps get the uncooperative site shut down? Or better, heavily monitored?I'm not really sure what the solutions are against terrorism. Terrorism is geared to impinge on liberty if you wish to do anything about it.
Education etc is all well and good, and needs focus. But it will never be a comprehensive solution. And whenever impinging further on liberties is mentioned, people get riled.
Out of genuine interest, what would you do?
As to what I'd do.. Publish the report on funding of Islamic terrorism, for one. Look at the funding of mosques and individuals known to promote extreme views. If you cut the funding and support from overseas, that would reduce their influence.
However, doing that would upset one of our bigger arms custoners, so won't happen.
Increase funding of the security services & police so they can properly monitor extremists of all kinds.
Scrap the current internet monitoring plans and develop targeted processes with judicial oversight, so they can properly monitor those they have suspicions about, rather than grabbing masses of useless data about everyone.
Edited by rscott on Wednesday 20th September 13:23
TTwiggy said:
While posting up sub-EDL memes and talking about cockroaches is really achieving isn't it?
Those posting things like that are great at screaming that "something must be done, we've had enough!".They're a little less good when it comes to explaining what they mean by that, or what they want to see done, other than a wishy washy "stop appeasing terrorists and allowing them to do terrorist things".
rscott said:
Murph7355 said:
rscott said:
Didn't you know .. she's going to solve it by making Facebook, etc clamp down on extremism. Not quite sure how that's going to work when the site most used by Islamic extremists doesn't cooperate with the security services...
Perhaps get the uncooperative site shut down? Or better, heavily monitored?I'm not really sure what the solutions are against terrorism. Terrorism is geared to impinge on liberty if you wish to do anything about it.
Education etc is all well and good, and needs focus. But it will never be a comprehensive solution. And whenever impinging further on liberties is mentioned, people get riled.
Out of genuine interest, what would you do?
As to what I'd do.. Publish the report on funding of Islamic terrorism, for one. Look at the funding of mosques and individuals known to promote extreme views. If you cut the funding and support from overseas, that would reduce their influence.
However, doing that would upset one of our bigger arms custoners, so won't happen.
Increase funding of the security services & police so they can properly monitor extremists of all kinds.
Scrap the current internet monitoring plans and develop targeted processes with judicial oversight, so they can properly monitor those they have suspicions about, rather than grabbing masses of useless data about everyone.
Edited by rscott on Wednesday 20th September 13:23
We know who funds Islamic Terrorism - Muslims, now some will agree that Saudi are the enemy, and some wont.
Only looking into the funding of Mosques and not other Religious buildings will create cries of picking on the poor Muslim Community again. Now if the result of this is 5% are Saudi funded or 95% are Saudi funded what do you do with that information ? If it is 5% then Saudi's influence is not what we are led to believe, if it is 95% then that would suggest all Mosques are a potential problem. However if people don't like the message they wouldn't go.
There are 1200 mosques in the UK of which 110 identify with Wahhabism.
Increased funding to allow increased monitoring, which will mean more monitoring of the poor Muslim Community again (bar the 3% that are Welsh). If the resources are available you are not only monitoring the suspect but everybody that he comes into contact with so lots and lots of Muslims.
Education - educate who and about what ?
KrissKross said:
del mar said:
Education - educate who and about what ?
Apparently people like me need to be educated into accepting this medieval cult in our country. I am the bad one and causing hate and tension, its all my fault... etcSomething's not quite right somewhere.
rscott said:
How do you shut down something which has no actual presence in the UK.
Scrap the current internet monitoring plans and develop targeted processes with judicial oversight, so they can properly monitor those they have suspicions about, rather than grabbing masses of useless data about everyone.
It has plenty of presence in the UK - the Imams in the mosques are preaching from the Koran on a daily basis. The default setting of some of the standard stuff in there is already what you and I would call 'extreme'.Scrap the current internet monitoring plans and develop targeted processes with judicial oversight, so they can properly monitor those they have suspicions about, rather than grabbing masses of useless data about everyone.
On the monitoring front, you have to monitor all in the first place to find out who to be suspicious about.
Cobnapint said:
Guilty here too. I apparently have to tolerate a religion in my own country that promotes death to non-believers (me), contains lots of homophobic, mysoginistic and antisemetic teachings, and issues Fatwas - while at the same time obeying laws of the land that prevent me from inciting religious hatred, hurling homophobic abuse, and threatening someone with death.
Something's not quite right somewhere.
You've mentioned religion here but pretty much everything you've written isn't exclusive to Islam and is present in many other parts of society. As for tolerating it well much of what you have written decribes criminal acts, and so rather than tolerating them if you have any evidence of them happening you could report them to the police. So why don't you?Something's not quite right somewhere.
Cobnapint said:
TheLordJohn said:
And don't forget oppression of women, honour killings, rape, female genital mutiliation, slavery, beheadings, paedophilia, jihad, hostage taking etc
Oh they're just minor issues, and what's more, have nothing to do with Islam - apparently.Digga said:
....Right now, there's not much the authorities can 'do' with a second generation, British born immigrant, until or unless they actually break the law. With first generation immigrants, it is simpler of course.
My reply isn't solely directed at you, but just picking up on the point you made about breaking the lawPeople get the book thrown at them for typing a careless tweet, yet thousands of people (more in the UK than anywhere in Europe) are accessing extreme content online and nothing is done - apart from monitoring & waiting for them to actually commit a crime. Accessing child porn online is a crime, why not make the same laws about accessing extreme content, and come down hard on those that do?
Our prisons obviously need a reform, - it's pointless sending perpetrators to 'Jihad University' which is currently what some our prisons are.
Similar with Mosques and Universities, - we need to clamp down very hard on anyone promoting extreme views. We need to treat so called "extreme Islam" in the same manner as Nazism. Yet for some bizarre reason, the authorities want to protect hate preachers let alone stand up against it (again - why?)
For me, it's not just the obvious extreme views which I object to (stoning’s, Jews ascend from apes & pigs, illegal to be gay etc), - it's the more common narrative preached in Mosques along the lines of "show respect to non-muslims, be polite to them, but inside your heart, - don't befriend them, - don't socialise with them, have nothing to do with them, as their way of life disgusts Allah and you shouldn't have any association with it". I believe this divisive preaching is damaging and continues to raise tensions within communities, and can lead in the end to Muslims have more and more hardline/extreme views/actions. Surely this sort of narrative could be classes as "inciting hatred" - and should not be tolerated?
Username888 said:
...can lead in the end to Muslims have more and more hardline/extreme views/actions. Surely this sort of narrative could be classes as "inciting hatred" - and should not be tolerated?
This is fine, but where do you draw the line? You can't single out a particular group for having a hateful narrative, and you can't have a thought police.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff