London Underground Incident
Discussion
_dobbo_ said:
Cobnapint said:
Guilty here too. I apparently have to tolerate a religion in my own country that promotes death to non-believers (me), contains lots of homophobic, mysoginistic and antisemetic teachings, and issues Fatwas - while at the same time obeying laws of the land that prevent me from inciting religious hatred, hurling homophobic abuse, and threatening someone with death.
Something's not quite right somewhere.
You've mentioned religion here but pretty much everything you've written isn't exclusive to Islam and is present in many other parts of society. As for tolerating it well much of what you have written decribes criminal acts, and so rather than tolerating them if you have any evidence of them happening you could report them to the police. So why don't you?Something's not quite right somewhere.
Pissing into the wind with that one I'm afraid.
Cobnapint said:
The Koran and those that preach it are legally allowed to say things that are illegal for me to say. Are you suggesting I report the Koran to the police?
Pissing into the wind with that one I'm afraid.
The Koran is not a person, so no of course I'm not suggesting that. Pissing into the wind with that one I'm afraid.
You honestly think that muslim clerics have a special exemption from the laws that you have to obey? Citation needed.
_dobbo_ said:
Also crimes, regardless of the motivating factor. You believe you're being asked to tolerate these crimes being perpetrated? Who is expecting you to do this?
Are you wilfully naive or dangerously ignorant?There's never been a single prosecution for FGM, since the 1984/1985 law.
Even the dreadful Guardian manages an article on it -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/06/fe...
_dobbo_ said:
You honestly think that muslim clerics have a special exemption from the laws that you have to obey? Citation needed.
How long was Anjem Choudary allowed to spew absolute bile for before being jailed?Now managing a good gig of converting/radicalising many in jail.
Another Guardian story - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/06/an...
At the time of this discussion he had never been prosecuted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BrueU4xd2w
TheLordJohn said:
Are you wilfully naive or dangerously ignorant?
I don't believe I'm either. I'm just not frothing at the mouth about a vast criminal conspiracy that is being allowed to continue because Muslims are somehow exempt from the law.Nor do I believe anyone is being expected to tolerate these things, which was the specific point I was addressing.
TheLordJohn said:
Another Guardian story - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/06/an...
Your example in support of the argument that muslim clerics are exempt from the law, is an article about a muslim cleric being jailed? _dobbo_ said:
Username888 said:
...can lead in the end to Muslims have more and more hardline/extreme views/actions. Surely this sort of narrative could be classes as "inciting hatred" - and should not be tolerated?
This is fine, but where do you draw the line? You can't single out a particular group for having a hateful narrative, and you can't have a thought police.An example of a line I would draw would be Imam's preaching to their flock that non-muslims are inferior. Or any preaching which is considered to be inciting hate. Perhaps laws should be introduced which defines exactly what these boundaries are.
Obviously you can't change what people are thinking, but as said, extreme Islam needs to be outlawed, not tolerated, as it is currently.
Username888 said:
I wouldn't single out a single group at all, the same laws should apply to anyone preaching division/hatred.
You say that, but you did single out a group, and continue to do so.How about far right views on race? What would happen to the EDL in your plan for example? How about strict Catholics and their views on homosexuality?
TheLordJohn said:
_dobbo_ said:
Also crimes, regardless of the motivating factor. You believe you're being asked to tolerate these crimes being perpetrated? Who is expecting you to do this?
Are you wilfully naive or dangerously ignorant?There's never been a single prosecution for FGM, since the 1984/1985 law.
Even the dreadful Guardian manages an article on it -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/06/fe...
The statistic on FGM are very misleading. The DoH are getting the Trust to introduce a requirement for medical professionals to report any indication of FGM in a patient. Not all Trust have done this which is why you see grouping of reports. More important the report is on any [b]indication[b\] a patient [b]ever having[b\] suffered FGM. This mean the report cover almost anything no matter how long ago, and where the person was even in the UK at the time.
It paper is using the statistics to suggest FGM is now common in the UK this not correct
mickmcpaddy said:
What would solve the problem overnight it to stop all social security payments to everyone, just do away with the whole dole system altogether. Then the only ones left here are the ones that want to kill us. Simple.
Wonderful idea. Except our own feral underclass will kill you quicker, once they run out of B&H fags and cheap cider._dobbo_ said:
Username888 said:
I wouldn't single out a single group at all, the same laws should apply to anyone preaching division/hatred.
You say that, but you did single out a group, and continue to do so.How about far right views on race? What would happen to the EDL in your plan for example? How about strict Catholics and their views on homosexuality?
As said already, same rules for everyone, EDL, Catholics, Nazis, anyone.
_dobbo_ said:
TheLordJohn said:
Another Guardian story - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/06/an...
Your example in support of the argument that muslim clerics are exempt from the law, is an article about a muslim cleric being jailed? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/20/britain...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/brit...
Don't hear anyone on here complaining.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/brit...
Don't hear anyone on here complaining.
Username888 said:
I wouldn't single out a single group at all, the same laws should apply to anyone preaching division/hatred.
An example of a line I would draw would be Imam's preaching to their flock that non-muslims are inferior. Or any preaching which is considered to be inciting hate. Perhaps laws should be introduced which defines exactly what these boundaries are.
Obviously you can't change what people are thinking, but as said, extreme Islam needs to be outlawed, not tolerated, as it is currently.
Agreed. But to make the Koran compliant with British law you'd probably have to rip half of it out. And how well would that go down I wonder.An example of a line I would draw would be Imam's preaching to their flock that non-muslims are inferior. Or any preaching which is considered to be inciting hate. Perhaps laws should be introduced which defines exactly what these boundaries are.
Obviously you can't change what people are thinking, but as said, extreme Islam needs to be outlawed, not tolerated, as it is currently.
Mrr T said:
Be careful of statistics particularly in the Guardian when pushing a particular angle.
NSPCC any better? https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-ab...
GOV/NHS - http://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
-20k reported in the last 2 years, they reckon. Overwhelming majority are being recorded as 'genital piercings'.
Independent - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and...
"It has been illegal to carry out FGM in the UK since 1985, but there has not been a single successful prosecution. This failure has been branded a "national scandal" by the Home Affairs Select Committee"
Edited by TheLordJohn on Wednesday 20th September 18:37
s1962a said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/20/britain...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/brit...
Don't hear anyone on here complaining.
Think we borrow £Billions from them, too. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/12/brit...
Don't hear anyone on here complaining.
Which would explain the lies told by successive PM's/politicians about Islam whenever there's another murder.
TheLordJohn said:
_dobbo_ said:
TheLordJohn said:
Another Guardian story - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/06/an...
Your example in support of the argument that muslim clerics are exempt from the law, is an article about a muslim cleric being jailed? TheLordJohn said:
Mrr T said:
Be careful of statistics particularly in the Guardian when pushing a particular angle.
NSPCC any better? https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-ab...
GOV/NHS - http://digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB30015
-20k in the last 2 years, they reckon. Overwhelming majority are being recorded as 'genital piercings'.
Independent - http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and...
"It has been illegal to carry out FGM in the UK since 1985, but there has not been a single successful prosecution. This failure has been branded a "national scandal" by the Home Affairs Select Committee"
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