Boris. £350m for the NHS if we leave EU. Again.
Discussion
Coolbanana said:
I like Cameron but he got it so wrong giving you and others like you a vote.
Who the hell do you think you are?Oh,I know,someone who doesn't like democracy.
Do you think the under 25s who voted are in full understanding of what they voted for?
After all their brains aren't fully developed.
Why don't you ever mention the millions and millions wasted on vanity projects and propaganda ever? Not suit the agenda?
Funkycoldribena said:
Why don't you ever mention the millions and millions wasted on vanity projects and propaganda ever?
...and here's a fine example...http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/wri...
///ajd said:
Dr Jekyll said:
The EU is not 'in need'.
So Bulgaria with min wage of €1 and av wage €500/month is not a relatively poor country?I thought that was why they were coming over here to take our HGV jobs, living 10 in a house, drinking in the street and sending the money home / not spending any here? And not maintaining their vehicles. Probably.
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
Not a loaded question in any way.PurpleMoonlight said:
JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
Not a loaded question in any way.Or wouldn't you bother voting like last time?
PurpleMoonlight said:
JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
Not a loaded question in any way.Having seen and heard the stance of the EU sine the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe) do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
Yes 100% stay, look whats going in goverment, it really isnt ok what is going on. Next thing we know our politicians will resemble something only seen in Italy Tryke3 said:
Yes 100% stay, look whats going in goverment, it really isnt ok what is going on. Next thing we know our politicians will resemble something only seen in Italy
I find that terrifying.You would rather be ruled by unelected rulers who do not consider the needs of our own country to be significant to them, than your own elected government.
loafer123 said:
Tryke3 said:
Yes 100% stay, look whats going in goverment, it really isnt ok what is going on. Next thing we know our politicians will resemble something only seen in Italy
I find that terrifying.You would rather be ruled by unelected rulers who do not consider the needs of our own country to be significant to them, than your own elected government.
JulianPH said:
Fair enough, we have always seemed to agree, I'll rephrase it:
Having seen and heard the stance of the EU sine the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
Well, it was obvious before the referendum that the EU wouldn't make it easy for us to leave. Why would they?Having seen and heard the stance of the EU sine the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
JulianPH said:
Simple question for the remainers on here, having seen and heard the stance of the EU a year later (including the announcement of an EU Army, EU Foreign Minister, widening of the Schengen and Euro zone, more EU control towards what look to be a further move towards a federal United States of Europe)So that's four "announcements" with a secondary bit of supposition.
Let's actually look at the reality of them, shall we?EU army - NATO pushed responsibility for common response to the EC in the mid-late 1990s. The European Council (which is the elected heads of state of each member country) resolved in 2002 that "the Union must have the capacity for autonomous action, backed by credible military forces, the means to decide to use them, and the readiness to do so, in order to respond to international crises without prejudice to actions by NATO". The Common Security and Defence Policy has been in place since 2003. "EU Battlegroups" have been in place since 2005, consisting of coalitions from member states - but have only been deployed once, in Paris in November 2015, after the Bataclan attacks.
EU foreign minister - Seems more like it's a bit of an omission that there's only a commissioner responsible for policy relating to "European near-neighbours" (since 1999), and nobody responsible for wider relations.
Widening Schengen and the Euro - well, surely that's down to whether countries want to join either? All EU accession countries since the establishment of both have agreed to join as part of their membership. Both are, of course, separate to the EU. That's 1995 for Schengen and 1999 for the Euro. But, since the UK has - oops, had - a permanent opt-out from either, they're irrelevant.
More EU control - Again, surely that's down to the democratic institutions to decide, and the member states to ratify...?
JulianPH said:
do you still think we should remain if you were voting again now?
YouGov this July put "Remain" in the lead. 46-43.Many of the things pointed out by "project fear" have turned out to be true. The pound fell and hasn't recovered. The FTSE 250 fell and is below its previous curve. The city is talking about moving jobs wholesale.
The total lack of plan by the Leave lobby has also turned out to be VERY true. Here we are, 14 months after the referendum, and a quarter of the way into the A50 process, and there's nothing coherent at all.
Boris is the only main Leave campaigner who didn't back away from that headline £350m bus claim in the immediate aftermath - IDS denied the claim had been made, and Nigel said it was a "mistake"... yet here is, still waving it about... And even Boris only joined the Leave side at the last minute, deciding it was a better career move than Remain.
TooMany2cvs said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Why don't you ever mention the millions and millions wasted on vanity projects and propaganda ever?
...and here's a fine example...http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/wri...
Remind me about the Bavarian puppet theatre,Donkeypedia and the school comics just for a start.
Tryke3 said:
Yes 100% stay, look whats going in goverment, it really isnt ok what is going on. Next thing we know our politicians will resemble something only seen in Italy
Your comment would have been more valid - and therefore open to acceptance - if you had actually bothered to use any facts supporting it. I had to remove many facts before you could even answer the question, and it is 'what's' (not whats) and 'isn't' (not isnt) - yet your camp say we are the uneducated ones!!!
Also, Italy had its elected politicians thrown out and replaced with EU appointed technocrats (as the democratically elected Government didn't do what the EU wanted).
There are many levels of both knowledge and ignorance, I congratulate you on highlighting this to us.
JulianPH said:
Fair enough, we have always seemed to agree, I'll rephrase it:
Having seen and heard the stance of the EU since the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
I voted Remain, I'd vote Remain again, it seemed to me that a lot of Leavers main reason to vote Leave, was because they thought that the flow of immigrants would stop.Having seen and heard the stance of the EU since the vote, would you still vote remain if you had the choice again now?
As it looks like quite a few are still coming, and probably will still be coming if the U.K. has to bite the bullet in negotiations to get a toehold in the Single Market, maybe, (only maybe), some Leavers might change their minds.
A lot of respected economists have said that U.K. will be okay after leaving Europe, but a lot of others, equally respected, say that we've dropped a b
k of biblical proportions.Both my sons quit this country, and live in Europe, one has a good work ethic, and will work his socks off if there's a euro to be made, the other, as much as I love him, is a bum, who works because he has to, but would sit in the sun all day if he could get away with it.
Both of them are adamant that they'd never return to U.K.
loafer123 said:
...unelected rulers...
It's a lot easier if you just admit you don't understand how EU decisions are made, y'know.Apart from the blatant ignorance (I'll assume it's ignorance, rather than a knowing lie) of the "unelected" claim, an individual's vote actually carries more weight towards EU decisions than Westminster. A single UK voter's vote counts towards (for my area - others vary) just under 1% of MEPs eligible to vote, but only 0.15% of MPs.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff