Rolls Royce cars to be made in German factory due to brexit?

[anonymous-user]

foxbody-87 said:

Off topic I know but there is a good documentary on Youtube about the development of the K-series engine. They spent a lot of time and money on that engine and for it's time (in fact, even by modern standards in some cases) it had a very impressive power output per litre. Unfortunately it is only remembered for it's failures. In some ways it reminds me of the "APT" train - the prototype was an amazing piece of engineering, but the production model was ruined by cost cutting.

Crazy really I own a Triumph Stag, a lovely car with a stigma of overheating issues like the MG with the K-Series engine,(famous last words) I have never had any overheating issues in the 11 years of ownership, I still run on the standard cooling system as it come out the factory and the dual points set up with no electronic ignition, the car's engine got rebuilt prior to me buying it at 87k miles and it was then I should imagine the root cause of stags overheating was rectified, the clearing of the waterways in the block of casting sand. Another great British car flawed by some easily rectified problem.
Just to add if I need any parts for my car preference is Lucas points, Unipart Oil filter and Renolds timing chains and tensioners if someone is selling nos parts, strange how the British parts manufacturers often mocked but still are the prefarable choice for quality.

[TooMany2cvs]

SpeckledJim said:

But I don't know if a German buyer of a Bentley is motivated by the fact it's not built in the Phaeton factory. Or perhaps the opposite?

I suspect it depends on the individual German buyer...

[SantaBarbara]

I visited the Imperial War Museum at Duxford a few years ago, there was a section on WW2 radar and electronic s from aircraft from both sides.

I was talking to several other experts and it was mentioned that the German wartime kit was well made but that it was over engineered to n the light that it only had minimal life duration

[Cneci]

Sway said:

The final assembly line, yes.

The craft shops on the first floor, absolutely not...

How much, in % terms, of craft production can be attributed to the construction of a RR in this day and age?

I would be very surprised if it's over 5% (happy to be proven wrong).

[SantaBarbara]

And is each car given a thorough road test, and then adjustment made according ly

[johnxjsc1985]

Cneci said:

How much, in % terms, of craft production can be attributed to the construction of a RR in this day and age?

I would be very surprised if it's over 5% (happy to be proven wrong).

The interiors alone are a work of art and the skill level is incredibly high.

[Camoradi]

Cneci said:

How much, in % terms, of craft production can be attributed to the construction of a RR in this day and age?

I would be very surprised if it's over 5% (happy to be proven wrong).

It depends how you are measuring the percentage. I have a relative who recently retired from RR at Goodwood and he appeared in the documentary about them a year or so back. He assures me that the bespoke elements of a Rolls Royce can form a very large proportion of the price, despite appearing to be minor modifications.

[amusingduck]

Yipper said:

The reality of most of the entire UK car industry today is that it is low-value "final assembly" and not high-value "full manufacturing".

Most of the underlying components are made abroad, in Europe or Asia, and then shipped in for a few low-paid workers to bolt together as a token political gesture. The UK really only does the "final 20%".

Source for any of those claims?

The SMMT, it seems, would disagree with you.



For British-built cars, the average UK content is 41%. So how can the UK's total contribution be "the final 20%"?

Maybe you should set them straight.

[SantaBarbara]

Glass and Tyres as well

[Cneci]

johnxjsc1985 said:

The interiors alone are a work of art and the skill level is incredibly high.

I don't doubt that.....but that's not what I'm asking.

By craft production I mean by hand, not autonomous or semi autonomous manufacturing.

I do doubt that more than 5% of the vehicle is constructed via craft methods over modern manufacturing techniques.

Their suppliers, who more than likely supply the wider (higher volume market) do not use craft methods (I know the companies I worked for didn't, and we supplied RR).

Although the customers for RR value perceived quality (handmade), ultimately RR are operating in one of the most aggressive sectors [clarkson] in the world [/clarkson].

They need to eradicate rework and shorten lead times just like any other manufacturing operation, they're just insulated from it more than a volume assembler, like Ford.

Handmade interiors are a selling point, an important one, but to extrapolate those methods and apply it to the wider vehicle is a romantic view which doesn't hold true any more.

It's just in RR's interest to market it that way.

[Camoradi]

^^^^^^^

5% by what measure...weight? volume?

..... or contribution to final price?

I know which one matters

[Cneci]

Camoradi said:

^^^^^^^

5% by what measure...weight? volume?

..... or contribution to final price?

I know which one matters

5% of the manufacturing process of one vehicle or more, if it's assumed that the manufacturing process does not vary within the model's production.

So construction of say 1000 Wraiths, 5% craft production methods, 95% modern manufacturing methods used.

I see what you mean for price, and if the handmade part of the car has a disproportionate % share of final sale price then it's obviously important.

[Sway]

Cneci said:

Camoradi said:

^^^^^^^

5% by what measure...weight? volume?

..... or contribution to final price?

I know which one matters

5% of the manufacturing process of one vehicle or more, if it's assumed that the manufacturing process does not vary within the model's production.

So construction of say 1000 Wraiths, 5% craft production methods, 95% modern manufacturing methods used.

I see what you mean for price, and if the handmade part of the car has a disproportionate % share of final sale price then it's obviously important.

In terms of manhours, the UK handmade element is likely to be a fairly large percentage, by the very nature that everything else will have a high level of automation, standardisation and volume...

In terms of weight, it'll be a very low percentage. Same for volume.

As for value, well the only answer there is 'virtually 100%', based upon the objective fact that you could buy a far better executive car for less than half the cost, yet they are still managing to sell a really quite large volume of cars for a brand of it's type. Clearly there is something driving those sales, and considering all factors (objectively better cars available cheaper, high levels of 'oily' bits sharing with far cheaper cars, etc.).

See this video (there are many others available), for just how much emphasis there is on giving the brand the same 'British' attributes as examples such as Savile Row, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-UJc47ASM

Or this one showing the factory - three friends of mine are in it, and they state over 500 hours purely on veneer work for an interior...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmLBMN-eNCQ

[SantaBarbara]

Cneci said:

5% of the manufacturing process of one vehicle or more, if it's assumed that the manufacturing process does not vary within the model's production.

So construction of say 1000 Wraiths, 5% craft production methods, 95% modern manufacturing methods used.

I see what you mean for price, and if the handmade part of the car has a disproportionate % share of final sale price then it's obviously important.

You are use GUESSING on the 5 percent figure

[Cneci]

SantaBarbara said:

You are use GUESSING on the 5 percent figure

Well, yes I am.

I don't think I've said it's not an estimate?

Sway said:

In terms of manhours, the UK handmade element is likely to be a fairly large percentage, by the very nature that everything else will have a high level of automation, standardisation and volume...
In terms of weight, it'll be a very low percentage. Same for volume.

Yes I agree. What I'm referring to is the manufacturing process, weighting of craft/modern production techniques for the production of a vehicle.

Sway said:

they state over 500 hours purely on veneer work for an interior...

.....and that's a good thing?

Why should the customer have to wait that long?

If you can guarantee that same level of quality with automated processes, with less cost and lead time, then do you think customer base would care so much about the craft element?

Nothing against the company, purely playing devil's advocate here.

[johnxjsc1985]

Cneci said:

.....and that's a good thing?

Why should the customer have to wait that long?

If you can guarantee that same level of quality with automated processes, with less cost and lead time, then do you think customer base would care so much about the craft element?

Nothing against the company, purely playing devil's advocate here.

now you just look like a WUM.
"why should the customer have to wait that long?."

[Sway]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Cneci said:

.....and that's a good thing?

Why should the customer have to wait that long?

If you can guarantee that same level of quality with automated processes, with less cost and lead time, then do you think customer base would care so much about the craft element?

Nothing against the company, purely playing devil's advocate here.

now you just look like a WUM.
"why should the customer have to wait that long?."

Because they want to. They also are willing to pay for it.

You seem to be missing the difference between price and value.

[craigjm]

It's a bit like the choice of buying a "Bespoke" suit from a Chinese travelling tailor type company vs a proper Savile Row one. They may employ the same skills but the quality is noticeably different and people will pay for the attention, care and individuality of hand crafted. People come from all over the world for a Savile Row suit and they do the same for a R-R. Build them in Germany and to the uber rich they won't have the same cachet.

[matchmaker]

TooMany2cvs said:

SantaBarbara said:

Is the Straight eight RR vehicle engine still manufactured to this day?

The only straight eight RR have EVER put in a car was the Phantom IV, in the early 50s. All 18 of 'em.

Do you mean the L-series v8? Yes, but not in a Rolls since the last Corniches a decade and a half ago. BMW started putting their own engines in from the first Seraphs. Bentley still use it, though.

The inline 8 was also used in airport fire engines.

[SantaBarbara]

matchmaker said:

The inline 8 was also used in airport fire engines.

A version of the straight eight was also used in military vehicles with an FV engine number and that was used in Dennis fire appliances