And...It's Spain.. will it kick off ?
Discussion
Kermit power said:
I'm pretty sure that in most significant ways of looking at these things, Spain has been a nation for significantly longer than the UK, hasn't it?
Kinda. Only a couple of short-lived changes since 1516, most notably unification with Portugal (under separate crowns) between 1580 and 1640, while the UK gained a big chunk in 1707 (Scotland), then shed a big chunk in 1922 (Republic of Ireland).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxDyJ_6N-6A
Digga said:
Kermit power said:
Digga said:
Of course, there's the perennial issue of Basque separatism too. This is surely going to encourage a renewed campaign for their separation too.
As I've said on the EU and Brexit threads, it always struck me a perverse that nations that had only, actually been nations (let alone democracies) for such relatively short spells have the nerve to criticise the UK or Brexit. Here is a perfect example.
I'm pretty sure that in most significant ways of looking at these things, Spain has been a nation for significantly longer than the UK, hasn't it?As I've said on the EU and Brexit threads, it always struck me a perverse that nations that had only, actually been nations (let alone democracies) for such relatively short spells have the nerve to criticise the UK or Brexit. Here is a perfect example.
Kermit power said:
Digga said:
Kermit power said:
Digga said:
Of course, there's the perennial issue of Basque separatism too. This is surely going to encourage a renewed campaign for their separation too.
As I've said on the EU and Brexit threads, it always struck me a perverse that nations that had only, actually been nations (let alone democracies) for such relatively short spells have the nerve to criticise the UK or Brexit. Here is a perfect example.
I'm pretty sure that in most significant ways of looking at these things, Spain has been a nation for significantly longer than the UK, hasn't it?As I've said on the EU and Brexit threads, it always struck me a perverse that nations that had only, actually been nations (let alone democracies) for such relatively short spells have the nerve to criticise the UK or Brexit. Here is a perfect example.
Then there's the small matter of Empire - we had one, the EU want one. I think we could give them the benefit of our own experience there too.
gofasterrosssco said:
I find it interesting that for all the talk of "democracy", what all modern separatist movements (e.g. nats in Scotland, Catalonia etc.) seem to offer really is just the promise of more money.
I've yet to hear of one (within a proper existing democracy) that offers the concept of separation fro the purposes of pure democracy, rather its "we'll be better off on our own".
Take the financial benefits away and the majority won't vote for it.
It's all about money, not democracy.
The Scottish Indy campaign started off promising more money (oil) but by the time the vote came around I think that line of persuasion had basically completely dissolved, and the line the Yes campaign were spinning was around pride and self-determination instead.I've yet to hear of one (within a proper existing democracy) that offers the concept of separation fro the purposes of pure democracy, rather its "we'll be better off on our own".
Take the financial benefits away and the majority won't vote for it.
It's all about money, not democracy.
Had the financial argument lasted the course, the vote might just have sneaked the other way.
Kermit power said:
psi310398 said:
In the scheme of things, I don't see why Catalonia should be any less viable as an independent nation than, say (if we are looking at existing EU nations), Slovakia or Denmark, let alone Belgium or Luxembourg.
You're asking the wrong question. The question you need to ask is whether the rest of Spain would be viable as an independent nation.SystemParanoia said:
i hope they split from the greedy/desperate spanish
I hope the Guarda Civil send in death squads,and make speaking Catalan a punishable offence,
well you started it!
[report][news]Wednesdayquotequote all
At lease this will take up some of their time attempting to get their grubby hands trying to take away Gibraltar from us.
They're welcome to it, have you been there, it's like Tilbury, with sunshine.
Frank7 said:
SystemParanoia said:
i hope they split from the greedy/desperate spanish
I hope the Guarda Civil send in death squads,and make speaking Catalan a punishable offence,
well you started it!
What you hope for is exactly what the Spanish did to the Catalans and others within living memory.
Might be why so many Catalans want to secede...
psi310398 said:
Frank7 said:
SystemParanoia said:
i hope they split from the greedy/desperate spanish
I hope the Guarda Civil send in death squads,and make speaking Catalan a punishable offence,
well you started it!
What you hope for is exactly what the Spanish did to the Catalans and others within living memory.
Might be why so many Catalans want to secede...
psi310398 said:
Digga said:
And Italy.
Then there's the small matter of Empire - we had one, the EU want one. I think we could give them the benefit of our own experience there too.
Spain had rather a large empire of its own...Then there's the small matter of Empire - we had one, the EU want one. I think we could give them the benefit of our own experience there too.
psi310398 said:
Kermit power said:
psi310398 said:
In the scheme of things, I don't see why Catalonia should be any less viable as an independent nation than, say (if we are looking at existing EU nations), Slovakia or Denmark, let alone Belgium or Luxembourg.
You're asking the wrong question. The question you need to ask is whether the rest of Spain would be viable as an independent nation.Kermit power said:
I'm sure you're right. I was just pointing out that I don't think anyone is actually questioning whether Catalonia could be viable nation in the first place.
OK. But there have been objections to the creation of more mini-states. I think there is at least one strand of Euro-integrationist thought that proliferating mini-states is not the way to a united/federal Europe but that is a slightly different point, I grant you. To answer your point, I think both could survive independently of each other but Spain would probably have to give up the Basques as well. Whether Galicia could strike out alone is more moot.
psi310398 said:
Frank7 said:
I don't seriously hope for that, s*i* for brains, who would, I was having a hopefully understandably humorous dig at the guy who called the Spanish greedy and desperate.
Well, I died laughing...I have absolutely zero against you, okay?
Plus I apologise for calling you s**t for brains.
Frank7 said:
At lease this will take up some of their time attempting to get their grubby hands trying to take away Gibraltar from us.
They're welcome to it, have you been there, it's like Tilbury, with sunshine.
The people there seem to like it the way it is....can the same be said for a lot of parts of the "Spanish" population.They're welcome to it, have you been there, it's like Tilbury, with sunshine.
gadgetmac said:
Congratulations! An anti Tony Blair post within the first 2 pages of a thread about Spain.
You win this weeks Weirdo-stuck-in-the-past award.
You're a bundle of laughs tonight !You win this weeks Weirdo-stuck-in-the-past award.
Unfortunately, Blair is not 'in the past' - and not averse to sticking his nose in where it's not wanted, so he may well turn up just about anywhere.
Sorry
Frank7 said:
Well I hope you are successfully resuscitated,
I have absolutely zero against you, okay?
Plus I apologise for calling you s**t for brains.
Thank you for the apology, Frank7. I have been called worse. But it is good of you to take steps to avoid a flame war. And a PistonHeads apology is a rare thing indeed! I have absolutely zero against you, okay?
Plus I apologise for calling you s**t for brains.
I've bought you an internet pint in appreciation
.Best
Peter
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