And...It's Spain.. will it kick off ?

[Stickyfinger]

TooMany2cvs said:

Spain might shout about Gib, but they go quiet if ever you mention Ceuta and Melllla as similar exclaves.

Funny that...\;)

[anonymous-user]

Stickyfinger said:

Gibraltar as a Uk province/territory is older that present day Spain is it not ?

It's been part of the UK since 1713.

Spain has been through enormous political changes since that time, it only became a modern democracy in 1978 and didn't join the EEC until 1986. It has a fascinating and turbulent history including the largest Muslim caliphate in Europe, its been a major Empire, Kingdom of its own and part of external Kingdoms and a fascist dictatorship.

People in areas like Catalonia have very strong identities to the region rather than the state we know as Spain. They suffered greatly under the last dictator Franco and this is driving some of the current issues with Madrid dictating to them when the modern Spain was built with the regions having their own control over their lives as a major construct of the new state. You think the Scottish/English have their issues, Spain is that x 100.

If this really turns to st we could see a serious level of violence erupt in Spain.

[Robertj21a]

jsf said:

If this really turns to st we could see a serious level of violence erupt in Spain.

......and it's beginning to look horribly likely.

[Ken Figenus]

TooMany2cvs said:

Define "present day Spain". If you go by Spain as a country occupying the current boundaries, then no - it's a more recent addition to the UK than Scotland.

Spain might shout about Gib, but they go quiet if ever you mention Ceuta and Melllla as similar exclaves.

Yes! And I believe any native Guanches still left (if any...) might feel the same about Las Canarias. People in glass houses etc!

[FN2TypeR]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/26/spai...

Police to be deployed by the Madrid Government en masse on Sunday

[Stickyfinger]

FN2TypeR said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/26/spai...

Police to be deployed by the Madrid Government en masse on Sunday

Would that be the Spanish version of the NKVD ?

[Donbot]

Stickyfinger said:

Would that be the Spanish version of the NKVD ?

You have it wrong. The Catalonians are the commies. The Spanish are sending in the Brownshirts.

[mickytruelove]

This is another bad sign of things to come in the future. Spain forcing top-level domain organizations to block and ban internet traffic. Also never knew their domain extension was .CAT

http://www.politico.eu/article/spanish-authorities...

Edited by mickytruelove on Tuesday 26th September 23:47

[anonymous-user]

I have a very bad feeling about this. I hope I am wrong.

Has there been any similar situation in mainland Europe for another EU member state?

[SystemParanoia]

im sure AOL still has dialup accounts

[Cyder]

Well my Catalan manager at work is travelling out to Barcelona this weekend for the vote, she's pretty convinced it's going to get messy and appears to think that many are prepared for the fight to cut the ties to the Spanish.

I also flew back from Mallorca earlier this evening and over the past week have seen numerous banners and signs being erected around the island protesting against the military and Spanish police intervention in the election.

Interesting but worrying times for that part of the world.

[turbobloke]

Cyder said:

Well my Catalan manager at work is travelling out to Barcelona this weekend for the vote, she's pretty convinced it's going to get messy and appears to think that many are prepared for the fight to cut the ties to the Spanish.

I also flew back from Mallorca earlier this evening and over the past week have seen numerous banners and signs being erected around the island protesting against the military and Spanish police intervention in the election.

Interesting but worrying times for that part of the world.

It's OK, they're in the EU and haven't triggered A50, so eurodrones in the EU will use their exceptional wisdom and peerless strategic thinking to help a member state in potentially serious trouble, the EU has an impressive track record in being selfless towards member states.

[Ken Figenus]

"The .cat Foundation, which manages the register of domains ending in .cat, was forced to block websites with information about the referendum that the Catalan independence movement hopes to hold October 1"

OMG Spain have gone all Chinese about the internet.

[Gargamel]

turbobloke said:

It's OK, they're in the EU and haven't triggered A50, so eurodrones in the EU will use their exceptional wisdom and peerless strategic thinking to help a member state in potentially serious trouble, the EU has an impressive track record in being selfless towards member states.

But,but,but the EU supports the principle of self determination ? Well it did in Ukraine, Germany, Scotland, Syria, Lebanon etc

[Stickyfinger]

Gargamel said:

But,but,but the EU supports the principle of self determination ? Well it did in Ukraine, Germany, Scotland, Syria, Lebanon etc

But only a one way street, it really is a Soviet system.
I have yet to see any reaction from the Eu/Eu plans that do not fit exactly that system of control. The Eu is smoke and mirrors to cover up the new incarnation of the "old ways" that have persisted within Europe for 100 or more years.

[hyphen]

mickytruelove said:

This is another bad sign of things to come in the future. Spain forcing top-level domain organizations to block and ban internet traffic. Also never knew their domain extension was .CAT

http://www.politico.eu/article/spanish-authorities...

[turbobloke]

EU support for its beloved member states is a varied and many-splendoured thing, just ask Nicos and Konstantina. Their top notch input will fix it for Spain surely.

[BlackLabel]

Erdogan or Xi Jinping would be proud of this latest move by the Spanish.

[Jonesy23]

I don't see why anyone would be particularly surprised by this; the Spanish never overthrew their Fascist government, they just got to a point where it was convenient to forget some of the details and pretend it never really happened.

The way the instruments of state are acting suggests nothing really changed since 1975. The sensible course would be to say the vote had no legitimacy, let it go ahead, if it went what was the likely way then there was nothing more to do, and if for some reason it went the wrong way then just ignore it. Instead we have the authoritarian response which is pretty much guaranteed to make things worse.

[ou sont les biscuits]

Jonesy23 said:

I don't see why anyone would be particularly surprised by this; the Spanish never overthrew their Fascist government, they just got to a point where it was convenient to forget some of the details and pretend it never really happened.

The way the instruments of state are acting suggests nothing really changed since 1975. The sensible course would be to say the vote had no legitimacy, let it go ahead, if it went what was the likely way then there was nothing more to do, and if for some reason it went the wrong way then just ignore it. Instead we have the authoritarian response which is pretty much guaranteed to make things worse.

I must have imagined the transition under Adolfo Suarez, and the subsequent PSOE governments (Partido Socialista Obrero Espanol - or Socialist Workers Party) of Felipe Gonzalez and Jose Luis Zapatero.

All Fascists in the mould of Franco obvs.

The current Partido Popular (conservative) president - Rajoy - is in a minority administration, but is pretty much supported by all the mainstream Spanish parties (including PSOE) in his handling of the situation in Catalunya. The exception being the extreme left wing Podemos party, but they, frankly make Jeremy Corbyn look Economically rational.

I don’t see much evidence of Fascists still being in power. I do see a national government trying hard to deal with a situation which is not of their making or their choosing in a way which is in accordance with the Consitution, which ISTR 94% of Catalans signed up to, and which commands popular support in most of Spain outside Catalunya. Spaniards who have as much right to a say as do the Catalans under the Constitution.