And...It's Spain.. will it kick off ?
Discussion
When I was in Catalonia last week there were far more Catalonian flags along the motorways than I saw even just 3 months prior.
Curiously however a large number of these flags were twinned with EU flags.
Unsure what the separatists are hoping to achieve. A bit like the SNP flirting with the EU as they have no feasible position but the Catalan people are fully capable of self sustainment.
Curiously however a large number of these flags were twinned with EU flags.
Unsure what the separatists are hoping to achieve. A bit like the SNP flirting with the EU as they have no feasible position but the Catalan people are fully capable of self sustainment.
The Spanish national police have raided the Catalan government headquarters.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-41331152
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-41331152
John145 said:
When I was in Catalonia last week there were far more Catalonian flags along the motorways than I saw even just 3 months prior.
Curiously however a large number of these flags were twinned with EU flags.
Unsure what the separatists are hoping to achieve. A bit like the SNP flirting with the EU as they have no feasible position but the Catalan people are fully capable of self sustainment.
Yeah, I was in Madrid the past couple days and several locals mentioned the rise in Catalonia flags. They say a very-vocal 1 million separatists are spoiling it for the other 5-10 million locals who are happy for the status quo to continue. The Spanish are very worried.Curiously however a large number of these flags were twinned with EU flags.
Unsure what the separatists are hoping to achieve. A bit like the SNP flirting with the EU as they have no feasible position but the Catalan people are fully capable of self sustainment.
Yipper said:
John145 said:
When I was in Catalonia last week there were far more Catalonian flags along the motorways than I saw even just 3 months prior.
Curiously however a large number of these flags were twinned with EU flags.
Unsure what the separatists are hoping to achieve. A bit like the SNP flirting with the EU as they have no feasible position but the Catalan people are fully capable of self sustainment.
Yeah, I was in Madrid the past couple days and several locals mentioned the rise in Catalonia flags. They say a very-vocal 1 million separatists are spoiling it for the other 5-10 million locals who are happy for the status quo to continue. The Spanish are very worried.Curiously however a large number of these flags were twinned with EU flags.
Unsure what the separatists are hoping to achieve. A bit like the SNP flirting with the EU as they have no feasible position but the Catalan people are fully capable of self sustainment.
The opinion polls look far too similar to Scotref: latest http://www.politico.eu/article/catalonia-independe...
41% for indy vs 48% against. Interestingly the Don't knows have been broadly consistent for the 3 years. In the case of Scotref, the don't knows broke broadly for independence. No wonder the Spanish are concerned.
At the last regional election (2015) the pro independence coalition got just under 40% of the vote. The Spanish should let them have their referendum - the separatists will lose. By denying them their vote and acting like they did today the Spanish are just pushing more people into the pro independence camp.
BlackLabel said:
At the last regional election (2015) the pro independence coalition got just under 40% of the vote. The Spanish should let them have their referendum - the separatists will lose. By denying them their vote and acting like they did today the Spanish are just pushing more people into the pro independence camp.
Yes, but they are probably looking at the Scottish referendum here - the independence supporters lost but are already calling for another try only a few years later. It will never end. The Spanish govt won't want a similar result there, with constant calls for further referendaSpeckledJim said:
This could make for some great viewing.
The Catalan claim to independence is arguably stronger than the Scottish one, Spain is in a lot more financial trouble than the UK, and Catalonia is the their richest region, not one of the poorest.
This is key.The Catalan claim to independence is arguably stronger than the Scottish one, Spain is in a lot more financial trouble than the UK, and Catalonia is the their richest region, not one of the poorest.
Without Catalonia, the rest of Spain would be bankrupt pretty much overnight.
Without Scotland, the rest of the UK would be a little bit better off.
The Spanish government has stated that for a referendum to be legal, everyone in Spain has to be able to vote, because they know that the rest of Spain will never vote to allow a Catalan secession.
Personally, I happen to agree with the Spanish government. Catalonia has been part of Spain since Spain came into existence in the 15th century, so it's not as though anyone in Catalonia can actually claim to have had their personal freedom taken away from them. If every rich area in every country decided to cut itself off from the poorer areas, then there would be wars breaking out all over the place.
It's not just Catalonia, either. Scotland has been part of the UK for 300 years or so, and speaking as an Englishman living in England, I really do believe that everyone in the country should get to vote, not just the Scots. I reckon we've got a far better chance of getting shot of them that way!!
El Guapo said:
A closer parallel would be Quebec, I think.
Maybe Rajoy should let the vote go ahead, on the basis that a majority would want to retain the status quo. The risk is that this could backfire in the event of a low voter turnout, as I believe happened last time.
Its a good deal more complicated than that though.Maybe Rajoy should let the vote go ahead, on the basis that a majority would want to retain the status quo. The risk is that this could backfire in the event of a low voter turnout, as I believe happened last time.
The main issue for the Spanish government is that the proposed referendum is illegal under the Spanish constitution and has been ruled so by the Courts. The Catalan politicians pushing the referendum are guilty of sedition, and the Spanish government can't ignore that.
Second, many Catalans who are opposed to the referendum have said that they won't vote in an illegal plebiscite. And you have to understand that there are no official polling stations for this, or lists of people registered to vote, or indeed officially printed ballot papers. it's likely that people who want to vote for independence will have to print their own voting slips and take them to some sort of clandestine polling station. My Spanish wife reckons that what's happening here would put a Banana Republic to shame.
It's a real mess. In 40 odd years of living and working in Spain on and off - we're here at the moment - I've never seen the country so divided. and that includes the period immediately post Franco.
Kermit power said:
Personally, I happen to agree with the Spanish government. Catalonia has been part of Spain since Spain came into existence in the 15th century, so it's not as though anyone in Catalonia can actually claim to have had their personal freedom taken away from them. If every rich area in every country decided to cut itself off from the poorer areas, then there would be wars breaking out all over the place.
Agree 100%Good post.
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