Waste in the NHS
Discussion
This probably isn't the type of post you thought it was...
I've recently (and for the first time in any meaningful sense) made use of the NHS. Most of this year I've been at GPs, scans, consultants and physios to identify and treat what I now know is a type of arthritis. It's likely that I'll be going onto a drug to be administered by myself with a pen, similar to diabetics. It was when the consultant mentioned it was one of the more expensive ones I had a Google... turns out it's £762/m, or £9k odd per year.
Now when we hear about the NHS on the news, QT or from politicians it's all about billions here, billions there, %age cuts or increases and the 'rights' of patients to the service. None of which means anything to the man in the street. We know billions are big, but neither a £1bn cut nor a £130bn budget is relatable to Joe Average on £30k. But £762 per month is. An MRI on a knee is £360 at my local private hospital. A knee replacement £12k. These numbers are immediately comparable to rent or a mortgage payment, or to annual salary (and to how much they pay in each month).
Every NHS person I've spoken to has stories of the sense of entitlement people have towards the service. Probably not helped by the fact I'm in Scotland and can pop (or waste) as many pills as I want and never pay a penny. Is it not time that we are told how much treatments actually cost, rather than believing everything is 'free'? Could that not help reduce missed appointments, wasted drugs and unwarranted demands?
Should the NHS not embark on awareness campaigns? Government has made it socially unacceptable to drink drive, speed and smoke though education and punishment. Could the same work in this case?
I've recently (and for the first time in any meaningful sense) made use of the NHS. Most of this year I've been at GPs, scans, consultants and physios to identify and treat what I now know is a type of arthritis. It's likely that I'll be going onto a drug to be administered by myself with a pen, similar to diabetics. It was when the consultant mentioned it was one of the more expensive ones I had a Google... turns out it's £762/m, or £9k odd per year.
Now when we hear about the NHS on the news, QT or from politicians it's all about billions here, billions there, %age cuts or increases and the 'rights' of patients to the service. None of which means anything to the man in the street. We know billions are big, but neither a £1bn cut nor a £130bn budget is relatable to Joe Average on £30k. But £762 per month is. An MRI on a knee is £360 at my local private hospital. A knee replacement £12k. These numbers are immediately comparable to rent or a mortgage payment, or to annual salary (and to how much they pay in each month).
Every NHS person I've spoken to has stories of the sense of entitlement people have towards the service. Probably not helped by the fact I'm in Scotland and can pop (or waste) as many pills as I want and never pay a penny. Is it not time that we are told how much treatments actually cost, rather than believing everything is 'free'? Could that not help reduce missed appointments, wasted drugs and unwarranted demands?
Should the NHS not embark on awareness campaigns? Government has made it socially unacceptable to drink drive, speed and smoke though education and punishment. Could the same work in this case?
Agreed, a detailed breakdown of every cost should be a legal requirement and visually in your face on every bit of paperwork. After all we are all paying for it.
Seen a doctor, cough cough, that's £300 please sir/madam tax payer.
By the way are you going to need new knees?
Seen a doctor, cough cough, that's £300 please sir/madam tax payer.
By the way are you going to need new knees?
Edited by KrissKross on Friday 22 September 21:14
It's interesting to compare costs of NHS treatments and similar procedures in the US.
For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
Was thinking about this today actually - fell off my ladder this morning and after spending all day in the resus unit of my local A&E, with what I can only describe as top, top care from everyone - in between the doses of Ketamine (how much is that?) it was going through my head as to how much my treatment was costing.
Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
MellowshipSlinky said:
Was thinking about this today actually - fell off my ladder this morning and after spending all day in the resus unit of my local A&E, with what I can only describe as top, top care from everyone - in between the doses of Ketamine (how much is that?) it was going through my head as to how much my treatment was costing.
Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Sadly the reason it's a brand new crutch is that many trusts don't collect and re use crutches when the patient no longer needs them. Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
rscott said:
Sadly the reason it's a brand new crutch is that many trusts don't collect and re use crutches when the patient no longer needs them.
Yes it is sad - something that may get used for a week or two in the main, then gets chucked in the back of the garage.It's not as if anything wears out on them...
MellowshipSlinky said:
rscott said:
Sadly the reason it's a brand new crutch is that many trusts don't collect and re use crutches when the patient no longer needs them.
Yes it is sad - something that may get used for a week or two in the main, then gets chucked in the back of the garage.It's not as if anything wears out on them...
MellowshipSlinky said:
Was thinking about this today actually - fell off my ladder this morning and after spending all day in the resus unit of my local A&E, with what I can only describe as top, top care from everyone - in between the doses of Ketamine (how much is that?) it was going through my head as to how much my treatment was costing.
Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Those that can easily afford to pay for such things tend to be those that are paying (or have paid) more than their fair share of tax to fund the NHS in the first place.Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
sidicks said:
MellowshipSlinky said:
Was thinking about this today actually - fell off my ladder this morning and after spending all day in the resus unit of my local A&E, with what I can only describe as top, top care from everyone - in between the doses of Ketamine (how much is that?) it was going through my head as to how much my treatment was costing.
Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Those that can easily afford to pay for such things tend to be those that are paying (or have paid) more than their fair share of tax to fund the NHS in the first place.Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Probably the same people that pay a s
t load of BIK and have private health too, but I certainly wouldn't be adverse to chipping in the little extra for such items at point of use.In fact, thinking back to my last excursion to a BUPA paid hospital visit, I had to buy the crutches myself..
KrissKross said:
By the way are you going to need new knees?
fking hope not. The pills and/or steroids seem to be working for now. 
I took a crutch back today. A private physio gave me it but only had one so I figured someone else might need it. That should be standard practice.
Murph7355 said:
Whilst it might be worth a try, I doubt it will make any difference.
Many would have said the same about drink driving, or seatbelts, or smoking. Yes there will always be a minority of aholes but I think the sums are so huge even a small dent in the waste would be worthwhile.rscott said:
MellowshipSlinky said:
rscott said:
Sadly the reason it's a brand new crutch is that many trusts don't collect and re use crutches when the patient no longer needs them.
Yes it is sad - something that may get used for a week or two in the main, then gets chucked in the back of the garage.It's not as if anything wears out on them...
rscott said:
It's interesting to compare costs of NHS treatments and similar procedures in the US.
For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
It’s not quite a fair comparison between the UK and the US in terms of cost due to the way the insurance works.For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
The Moose said:
rscott said:
It's interesting to compare costs of NHS treatments and similar procedures in the US.
For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
It’s not quite a fair comparison between the UK and the US in terms of cost due to the way the insurance works.For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
rscott said:
The Moose said:
rscott said:
It's interesting to compare costs of NHS treatments and similar procedures in the US.
For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
It’s not quite a fair comparison between the UK and the US in terms of cost due to the way the insurance works.For example, I had minor surgery earlier this year (septoplasty & turbinate reduction). This was carried out in a day unit and I was sent home with simple care instructions and a follow up appointment 3 months later. Also given a phone number to call if I had an problems.
Typical US patients seem to have 3 or 4 followups in the first 2 weeks, then anything up to 6 more over the 3 month period.
My treatment was completely successful with no complications whatsoever, so I don't see the US level of appointments is entirely necessary in every case..
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
1. Insurance. The institutional insurance for medical coverage here in the USA means the insurance companies effectively encourage bigger billing - the more they pay out, the greater the profits they make as they just collect more in premiums the next year etc.
2. Liability. You said that your procedure didn’t require the level of follow ups that are offered here in the US, however if they had been required but they weren’t offered, there may be a potential liability issue.
I have nothing to do with the industry here (other than a very occasional user...thank goodness) and this is just my opinion.
Pesty said:
rscott said:
Sadly the reason it's a brand new crutch is that many trusts don't collect and re use crutches when the patient no longer needs them.
It's worse than that. Even if you take the crutch, frame back they skip it. It's policy.
technodup said:
Should the NHS not embark on awareness campaigns? Government has made it socially unacceptable to drink drive, speed and smoke though education and punishment. Could the same work in this case?
Good idea OP. Why not take action to see if you can make this happen; write to your MP, etc.?rscott said:
My Googling suggests US costs are 2 -5 times the UK for the same procedure, monitoring and results!
Yeah. This (and for those who don't understand why, think vehicle crash repair quotes when they know an insurance company is paying).chemistry said:
Good idea OP. Why not take action to see if you can make this happen; write to your MP, etc.?
There isn't a chance of it happening, because the people with power in the NHS won't let it.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff