Waste in the NHS
Discussion
chemistry said:
technodup said:
Should the NHS not embark on awareness campaigns? Government has made it socially unacceptable to drink drive, speed and smoke though education and punishment. Could the same work in this case?
Good idea OP. Why not take action to see if you can make this happen; write to your MP, etc.?And in the unlikely chance she liked the idea I wouldn't have her taking credit for it. The rancid wee cow. But leaving her manky politics aside it can't be right that I get the monthly pill combination below, plus (so far)
X-Ray x2
MRI x2
CT Scan x1
Lung function test x1
weekly blood tests
consultant appointments x3
GP appointments x6?
physio appointments x2
and 2 more MRI to come before I go on the £762/m drug. Literally without paying a penny, not even a prescription charge. In other circles it's understood that if something is given away free there is less value attached to it compared if you have to pay for it. I'm not suggesting we pay (that's for another day) but an indication of the cost might go some way to reset people's thoughts on their 'rights' around the 'free' NHS.
Not to mention I guess most people will also be on sick pay, PIP, DLA or something else. I think if people had an idea of what these things actually cost the attitude toward the service might change.
As it happens I know of someone who is involved with health campaigns in Scotland, I might just tap him up for a contact.
sawman said:
It depends where you are, in my area they send a van out to collect crutches when they are no longer required, they then get refurbed and re used
That surprises me. I'd have thought labour costs alone would mean that's not viable. In my trust any that are returned* are given to charity to be shipped off to the third world.*We don't chase, and certainly don't collect them.
a small example from me . earlier this year i was in hospital with severe burns to both feet. i required my dressings to be changed daily. on the first day the doctor explained to a nurse that a cerrtain dressing should be used. not only was it better , it was half the price.
for the rest of my two week stay , the more expensive dressing was used.
my feet were bandaged up and then a tape was used to hold it all together. two pieces per foot. the rest of the roll was thrown away. i can understand it may be due to hygiene but i had a sterile dressing on , the tape was to hold it all together. if you multiply this sort of waste across a whole organisation , then it is fairly worrying.
please do not take this as a criticism of the NHS. i am only alive today because of their sterling efforts.
i am very grateful for the exemplary care i have recieved over the past few years.
i have just remembered something else. at the end of my two week stay, they told me i could go home. i said that great , but i cannot be picked up until early evening. they insisted on sending me home in a car. from birmingham to stoke. i said that i was quite happy to be collected by a family member and i could wait in a public area until my lift arrived. they insisted on me using their transport.
for the rest of my two week stay , the more expensive dressing was used.
my feet were bandaged up and then a tape was used to hold it all together. two pieces per foot. the rest of the roll was thrown away. i can understand it may be due to hygiene but i had a sterile dressing on , the tape was to hold it all together. if you multiply this sort of waste across a whole organisation , then it is fairly worrying.
please do not take this as a criticism of the NHS. i am only alive today because of their sterling efforts.
i am very grateful for the exemplary care i have recieved over the past few years.
i have just remembered something else. at the end of my two week stay, they told me i could go home. i said that great , but i cannot be picked up until early evening. they insisted on sending me home in a car. from birmingham to stoke. i said that i was quite happy to be collected by a family member and i could wait in a public area until my lift arrived. they insisted on me using their transport.
I worked for a huge boots store several years ago. The amount of returned drugs was bonkers. Diabetics are some of the worst culprits. As you don't pay at all in Wales people just keep taking even though they have enough to last a while. I've argued that even a £2 would make people think a little more. Gluten free is another. People order £30 of bread and other bits and then don't bother collecting.
Bill said:
sawman said:
It depends where you are, in my area they send a van out to collect crutches when they are no longer required, they then get refurbed and re used
That surprises me. I'd have thought labour costs alone would mean that's not viable. In my trust any that are returned* are given to charity to be shipped off to the third world.*We don't chase, and certainly don't collect them.
MellowshipSlinky said:
Was thinking about this today actually - fell off my ladder this morning and after spending all day in the resus unit of my local A&E, with what I can only describe as top, top care from everyone - in between the doses of Ketamine (how much is that?) it was going through my head as to how much my treatment was costing.
Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Ketamine costs pennies. Literally.Strangely though, it was as I was about to leave when they presented me with a brand new crutch - I could easily afford to pay for such items, (I know others can't...) so it got me thinking how many of 'me' are given stuff by the NHS who could actually give a contribution for items such as this.
Although if it ends up going the way of many other anaesthetic drugs then the manufacturers will be shutting production facilities and there'll be a sudden reduction in supply due to production closure and it won't be available except at added cost
technodup said:
hat would be Nicola Sturgeon as I'm in Scotland.
And in the unlikely chance she liked the idea I wouldn't have her taking credit for it. The rancid wee cow. But leaving her manky politics aside it can't be right that I get the monthly pill combination below, plus (so far)
X-Ray x2
MRI x2
CT Scan x1
Lung function test x1
weekly blood tests
consultant appointments x3
GP appointments x6?
physio appointments x2
and 2 more MRI to come before I go on the £762/m drug. Literally without paying a penny, not even a prescription charge. In other circles it's understood that if something is given away free there is less value attached to it compared if you have to pay for it. I'm not suggesting we pay (that's for another day) but an indication of the cost might go some way to reset people's thoughts on their 'rights' around the 'free' NHS.
Not to mention I guess most people will also be on sick pay, PIP, DLA or something else. I think if people had an idea of what these things actually cost the attitude toward the service might change.
As it happens I know of someone who is involved with health campaigns in Scotland, I might just tap him up for a contact.
As an aside, I was placed on ezaterol after various difficulties with Satins etc to control cholesterol and the results were dramatic to say the least And in the unlikely chance she liked the idea I wouldn't have her taking credit for it. The rancid wee cow. But leaving her manky politics aside it can't be right that I get the monthly pill combination below, plus (so far)
X-Ray x2
MRI x2
CT Scan x1
Lung function test x1
weekly blood tests
consultant appointments x3
GP appointments x6?
physio appointments x2
and 2 more MRI to come before I go on the £762/m drug. Literally without paying a penny, not even a prescription charge. In other circles it's understood that if something is given away free there is less value attached to it compared if you have to pay for it. I'm not suggesting we pay (that's for another day) but an indication of the cost might go some way to reset people's thoughts on their 'rights' around the 'free' NHS.
Not to mention I guess most people will also be on sick pay, PIP, DLA or something else. I think if people had an idea of what these things actually cost the attitude toward the service might change.
As it happens I know of someone who is involved with health campaigns in Scotland, I might just tap him up for a contact.
Roll forwards a couple if years and Tayside pharmaceutical decided that I wasn't to be on this single tablet as they changed the criteria or rather their accountants did
So I'm back onto a cocktail of statins and others have 4 to take every day and have since had 3 tendons detach from their which had caused numerous A and E visits and outpatient appointments.
I won't mention the pain or distress or even the fact that I was previously able bodied and contributing to the taxation economy... Oh and I concur with your estimation of sturgeon and her cohorts who have ruined NHS Scotland...
Frybywire said:
technodup said:
I think if people had an idea of what these things actually cost the attitude toward the service might change.
All those pills in the pic are generics and cost bugger all as they are all out of patent.All the things, many of which on their own cost 'bugger all', when added up come to £130bn.
I've no idea how many people a GP sees in a day, but very roughly if he's on £100k and sees 12 that's £33. And thousands of people don't show up. So waiting times are longer and the service is forever 'in crisis'. All I'm suggesting is we put more emphasis on the responsibilities which should go hand in hand with the rights.
y attitudes like 'they cost bugger all anyway' is precisely what needs to change imo.My partner is diabetic, and also has renal failure. He's on dialysis three times a week, and has had one transplant. I reckon we get our money's worth from the NHS - it's all free.
It's free when we travel in Europe too, except what some of those hospitals do is give you a statement of what the treatment cost, every time. No need to pay, but it certainly raises awarensss of the cost of treatments. Perhaps more transparency would,lead to a downward trend in the price of some stuff...?
It's free when we travel in Europe too, except what some of those hospitals do is give you a statement of what the treatment cost, every time. No need to pay, but it certainly raises awarensss of the cost of treatments. Perhaps more transparency would,lead to a downward trend in the price of some stuff...?
It will never happen. If the public saw the NHS waste quantified before their eyes, they would go mental and heads would roll.
I owned a small share in a medical recruitment firm. It was not unusual for a hozza department to be understaffed for a weekend due to bad forward planning -- the hospital would happily dip into its (your) pocket and pay £3-5k to fly a temporary doctor or nurse over from Germany to cover the gap for a day or two.
I owned a small share in a medical recruitment firm. It was not unusual for a hozza department to be understaffed for a weekend due to bad forward planning -- the hospital would happily dip into its (your) pocket and pay £3-5k to fly a temporary doctor or nurse over from Germany to cover the gap for a day or two.
technodup said:
think you somewhat miss the point. Not least of which the number of people I've taken time with to get to the stage of actually getting the pills in the first place. And the scanners, and the fancy new buildings and...
All the things, many of which on their own cost 'bugger all', when added up come to £130bn.
I've no idea how many people a GP sees in a day, but very roughly if he's on £100k and sees 12 that's £33. And thousands of people don't show up. So waiting times are longer and the service is forever 'in crisis'. All I'm suggesting is we put more emphasis on the responsibilities which should go hand in hand with the rights.
y attitudes like 'they cost bugger all anyway' is precisely what needs to change imo.
You are the one missing the point. 'bugger all' doesn't add up to 130bn. Bugger all adds up to bugger all. JH doing dumbass things and getting docs to leave the profession to be replaced by very expensive locums, that's what is adding up. 'bugger all' adds up to rounding error. All the things, many of which on their own cost 'bugger all', when added up come to £130bn.
I've no idea how many people a GP sees in a day, but very roughly if he's on £100k and sees 12 that's £33. And thousands of people don't show up. So waiting times are longer and the service is forever 'in crisis'. All I'm suggesting is we put more emphasis on the responsibilities which should go hand in hand with the rights.
y attitudes like 'they cost bugger all anyway' is precisely what needs to change imo.Edited by jjlynn27 on Saturday 23 September 16:45
The organisation is too large and detached from the reality of what a £1 is for it to efficient
The answer isn't simply to make it into smaller units and drive up efficiency, but that would help
Demand reduction would be good too. Far too many patients that would miraculously get better if their income wasn't created by being ill
The answer isn't simply to make it into smaller units and drive up efficiency, but that would help
Demand reduction would be good too. Far too many patients that would miraculously get better if their income wasn't created by being ill
JPJPJP said:
The organisation is too large and detached from the reality of what a £1 is for it to efficient
The answer isn't simply to make it into smaller units and drive up efficiency, but that would help
Demand reduction would be good too. Far too many patients that would miraculously get better if their income wasn't created by being ill
Splitting it into smaller units doesn't help though. With the current system, for example, each Trust has a full HR department - surely that's a waste and it should all be provided by a single, central operation.The answer isn't simply to make it into smaller units and drive up efficiency, but that would help
Demand reduction would be good too. Far too many patients that would miraculously get better if their income wasn't created by being ill
rscott said:
Splitting it into smaller units doesn't help though. With the current system, for example, each Trust has a full HR department - surely that's a waste and it should all be provided by a single, central operation.
Yes, like big corporates do: divisions with P&L accountability and key corporate services supplied from centralised / outsourced operations paid for by every division on a pro rata basisThe accountability to deliver is what seems to be missing in NHS. All these trusts in special measures, waiting lists growing, demand management not evident, yet the senior management seems to remain in the plushest coaches of the gravy train with no noticeable concerns
jjlynn27 said:
You are the one missing the point. 'bugger all' doesn't add up to 130bn. Bugger all adds up to bugger all. JH doing dumbass things and getting docs to leave the profession to be replaced by very expensive locums, that's what is adding up. 'bugger all' adds up to rounding error.
And there we have it, someone else's fault.People on here rattle on about tip run cars all the time. It's the same principle. Low value, low concern. Except in the NHS it's not low value, it's 'free' and consequently many people don't give a f
k.All I'm suggesting is a bit of education might improve users behaviour and ultimately save a few quid.
technodup said:
All I'm suggesting is a bit of education might improve users behaviour and ultimately save a few quid.
You are missing the point others are making: no-one with the power to change the NHS wants to save any money. That is not what they are there for. It is not what the NHS is there for. That's why it cannot be "fixed"; to their mind it isn't "broken".Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff