Anti-Semitism and the British Left.

Anti-Semitism and the British Left.

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Discussion

Johnny5hoods

499 posts

118 months

Tuesday 26th September 2017
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After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

Edited by Johnny5hoods on Tuesday 26th September 23:09

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Tuesday 26th September 2017
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It is certainly a very strange thing. I don't mind people being pro/anti Israel, but being anti jew is just daft, and self-defeating.

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Of course he should be allowed to air his views.

Doesn't mean he is right, doesn't mean we should listen and doesn't mean there won't be a backlash

But I believe he has a fundamental right to free speech.

I would rather have them all out in the open where I can keep an eye on them

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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I think that thee is a problem with some on the left who combine opposition to Israeli policy (legit) with anti-semitism (very non legit) , but that holocaust denial story looks to be a fuss about not much. From the report, the speaker was defending free speech and isn't a holocaust denier at all, although he is a no platformer, which makes him a bit dodgy on free speech.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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When you have as shadow home secretary one of the most bigoted and racist politicians of recent years, what can you expect

Pan Pan Pan

9,777 posts

110 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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On the news this morning was that Brighton wants to ban the labour party because of their alleged anti Semitism, Wonder where they will hold their party conference next if the ban is implemented? Any suggestions? Joke ones will do.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Tel Aviv

Pan Pan Pan

9,777 posts

110 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Jimboka said:
Tel Aviv
smile

Luther Blissett

391 posts

131 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Can someone point out the antisemitism in what he said? I've read it several times and I can't see it.

B210bandit

513 posts

96 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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How dare they criticise what a Jewish man has said? Bloody Labour anti-Semitism.

franki68

10,330 posts

220 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Luther Blissett said:
Can someone point out the antisemitism in what he said? I've read it several times and I can't see it.
What’s wrong with having a notorious anti Semite trying to legitimise holocaust denial ? Or give it a platform?
Peled has actually been banned from speaking by the organisers at some pro Palestinian events in the USA because some of his comments are so anti Semitic and hateful.





Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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franki68 said:
Luther Blissett said:
Can someone point out the antisemitism in what he said? I've read it several times and I can't see it.
What’s wrong with having a notorious anti Semite trying to legitimise holocaust denial ? Or give it a platform?
Peled has actually been banned from speaking by the organisers at some pro Palestinian events in the USA because some of his comments are so anti Semitic and hateful.
As Luther has asked what is "anti-semitic" about what he has said?


Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Countdown said:
As Luther has asked what is "anti-semitic" about what he has said?
He compared Zionists to Nazis - which is anti-Semitic under the international definition.
https://antisemitism.uk/definition/

Ridgemont

6,488 posts

130 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Luther Blissett said:
Can someone point out the antisemitism in what he said? I've read it several times and I can't see it.
He's reported by the Wail as stating

another article said:
Speaking at an event on free speech and Israel, Peled is reported to have said: “This is about free speech, the freedom to criticise and to discuss every issue, whether it’s the Holocaust: yes or no, Palestine, the liberation, the whole spectrum. There should be no limits on the discussion.”
Freedom of speech does not prevent you from painting yourself as a bigot if you are proposing that a discussion over the historical accuracy of the holocaust is legitimate. It isn't. This was entirely the point about the Irving trial.

KobayashiMaru86

1,145 posts

209 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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voyds9 said:
Of course he should be allowed to air his views.

Doesn't mean he is right, doesn't mean we should listen and doesn't mean there won't be a backlash

But I believe he has a fundamental right to free speech.

I would rather have them all out in the open where I can keep an eye on them
Absolutely this. I'm all for free speech and everything it entails and should not have any rules on it whatsoever. Lots say they want free speech but what they mean is for them and the people that agree with them. It's easier to defend an enemy you can see. If they spout nonsense I'd hope that people could realise it was and argue back and debate points.

Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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KobayashiMaru86 said:
Absolutely this. I'm all for free speech and everything it entails and should not have any rules on it whatsoever. Lots say they want free speech but what they mean is for them and the people that agree with them. It's easier to defend an enemy you can see. If they spout nonsense I'd hope that people could realise it was and argue back and debate points.
^^maybe I don't totally agree, but certainly the part about "what they mean is for them". Just look at the BDS baying mobs trying to disrupt speeches by Israelis - or, more precisely, Israeli Jews

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

185 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Hmmm, I'm kind of conflicted on this. I'm not in any way anti-Semitic, and I'm no fan of Labour, especially the current mutation.

However, I'm also deeply uncomfortable with the idea that we are so scared of anyone saying the Holocaust didn't happen (or anything else, for that matter) that to do so is a crime.

I guess I'm quite happy for some extremist loons that now find a place for themselves in the Labour Party to say what they believe, so that we can all find out just what extremist loons they are.

franki68

10,330 posts

220 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Solocle said:
He compared Zionists to Nazis - which is anti-Semitic under the international definition.
https://antisemitism.uk/definition/
I think comparisons to apartheid and terminology that is incorrectly used such as 'ethnic cleansing' which is designed to antagonize jews/zionists falls into that bracket as well.

Norman finkelstein who is not my cup of tea stated that whilst such statements are inaccurate it is ok to use them because it provokes a reaction from zionists/jews .It is designed to offend .




Ridgemont

6,488 posts

130 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Johnnytheboy said:
Hmmm, I'm kind of conflicted on this. I'm not in any way anti-Semitic, and I'm no fan of Labour, especially the current mutation.

However, I'm also deeply uncomfortable with the idea that we are so scared of anyone saying the Holocaust didn't happen (or anything else, for that matter) that to do so is a crime..
No one is saying he should be arrested. They are saying he is Anti Semitic. And he can't respond with libel shutting that accusation down.

He can claim whatever he wants but he will be accurately described as anti Semite if he believes that the historical existence of the holocaust is open to debate. It really isn't and the only people who wish for this to be an open question (and are usually mustard keen on 'free speech' in this context) are motivated not by the veracity of historiography but with an intent to question the event's existence and therefore from there all sorts of repercussions (the establishment of Israel etc).

Typically non fascist exponents are, in the bendy twisty logical mind trap of the hard left, working backwards from vehement opposition to Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians, and, confronted by the aura that the holocaust casts on the foundation period of the Jewish homelands post '45, find themselves espousing a fundamentally anti Semitic position of questioning the holocaust event. Their means of achieving that is usually 'free speech yay!'.