Anti-Semitism and the British Left.
Discussion
Alpinestars said:
Solocle said:
Alpinestars said:
You subjugate people, and eventually they react. Presumably that signals the start of the tango.
The PLO was formed in 1964, 3 years before the 6 day war - now the Palestinian authority. Their goal was, and for many still is, the complete annihilation of Israel, NOT a 2 state solution. Hence their rejection of Israeli offers over 90% of J&S and the whole of Gaza.The band was formed to accommodate Lynne's and Wood's desire to create modern rock and pop songs with classical overtones, deriving as an offshoot of Wood's previous band the Move, of which Lynne and Bevan were also members.
Alpinestars said:
DonkeyApple said:
Biker 1 said:
An interesting post & if only it were that easy to resolve.... I have been on both sides of the divide & its sad to see. However, it takes two to tango.
Absolutely but we have faced and overcome greater challenges as humans. And it doesn't mean we should confine the brutality and oppressions of either side. Was that a reaction to subjugation?
I think this is veering off topic and will end up with a 600pages of people espousing their unchangeable opinion so back to the topic at hand...
The original question as far as I can see has been answered ,comparing Israel to nazism is anti Semitic,this is what the individual in question does regularly along with his other beliefs that have got him banned even by pro Palestinian organisations.
Alpinestars said:
Solocle said:
Another example is George Galloway. He was kicked out by Blair for opposing the Iraq war. But, in 2014, he declared Bradford an “Israeli free zone”. Now, if I supported India, and was the MP for Bournemouth, if I declared Bournemouth a “Pakistani free zone”, what do you think the reaction would be? Hmmm?
This is the same guy who had the chutzpah to send solicitors’ letters to people who called him an antisemite. He doesn’t seem to have a problem with the holocaust denial cartoon competition held by his Iranian paymasters...
Anti Israeli or anti Jewish? One is totally unacceptable, the other is a political statement. This is the crux of being opposed to Israel but not being an anti Semite. This is the same guy who had the chutzpah to send solicitors’ letters to people who called him an antisemite. He doesn’t seem to have a problem with the holocaust denial cartoon competition held by his Iranian paymasters...
Come on AS you are an intelligent man why don’t people use anti Israeli but need to use Zionist ,when most Jews are Zionists and most Zionists are Jews ?
Alpinestars said:
Anti Israeli or anti Jewish? One is totally unacceptable, the other is a political statement. This is the crux of being opposed to Israel but not being an anti Semite.
What do you mean by "anti-Israeli"? Do you mean against the Israeli people, against the current Israeli government's policies, against the existence of Israel? Is it just a political statement to be "anti-Pakistani" or "anti-Japanese"?franki68 said:
I think this is veering off topic and will end up with a 600pages of people espousing their unchangeable opinion so back to the topic at hand...
The original question as far as I can see has been answered ,comparing Israel to nazism is anti Semitic,this is what the individual in question does regularly along with his other beliefs that have got him banned even by pro Palestinian organisations.
The original question as far as I can see has been answered ,comparing Israel to nazism is anti Semitic,this is what the individual in question does regularly along with his other beliefs that have got him banned even by pro Palestinian organisations.
Agreed. Time to move on - perhaps the OP would like to start a new thread on the Middle East peace process?otolith said:
Alpinestars said:
Anti Israeli or anti Jewish? One is totally unacceptable, the other is a political statement. This is the crux of being opposed to Israel but not being an anti Semite.
What do you mean by "anti-Israeli"? Do you mean against the Israeli people, against the current Israeli government's policies, against the existence of Israel? Is it just a political statement to be "anti-Pakistani" or "anti-Japanese"?otolith said:
Alpinestars said:
Anti Israeli or anti Jewish? One is totally unacceptable, the other is a political statement. This is the crux of being opposed to Israel but not being an anti Semite.
What do you mean by "anti-Israeli"? Do you mean against the Israeli people, against the current Israeli government's policies, against the existence of Israel? Is it just a political statement to be "anti-Pakistani" or "anti-Japanese"?That's very different to being anti Jewish people or anti semitic.
franki68 said:
Anti Israeli ,correct ,about time someone used this .
Come on AS you are an intelligent man why don’t people use anti Israeli but need to use Zionist ,when most Jews are Zionists and most Zionists are Jews ?
The way I look at it, there are plenty of Israelis who are against certain policies of the current Israeli Govt and right-wing parties such as Jewish Home. For example I may be wrong but I see Zionist policies as being pro-Settlement expansion, which are not policies that all Israelis share.Come on AS you are an intelligent man why don’t people use anti Israeli but need to use Zionist ,when most Jews are Zionists and most Zionists are Jews ?
I suppose it depends on your definition of Zionism.
Alpinestars said:
otolith said:
Alpinestars said:
Anti Israeli or anti Jewish? One is totally unacceptable, the other is a political statement. This is the crux of being opposed to Israel but not being an anti Semite.
What do you mean by "anti-Israeli"? Do you mean against the Israeli people, against the current Israeli government's policies, against the existence of Israel? Is it just a political statement to be "anti-Pakistani" or "anti-Japanese"?otolith said:
Alpinestars said:
otolith said:
Alpinestars said:
Anti Israeli or anti Jewish? One is totally unacceptable, the other is a political statement. This is the crux of being opposed to Israel but not being an anti Semite.
What do you mean by "anti-Israeli"? Do you mean against the Israeli people, against the current Israeli government's policies, against the existence of Israel? Is it just a political statement to be "anti-Pakistani" or "anti-Japanese"?I love the way the hard left care desperately about the oppression of Muslims in Palestine, where they just so happen to be oppressed by Israel and by association, Jews.
But you never see them taking up the causes of other suppressed Muslims anywhere else on Earth in scores of other countries
It is simply an excuse to direct hatred towards Jews, if they cared they wouldn't focus just on one country so much.
It is exactly the same mindset and the inverse situation, where the same people attempt to vilify Jews for practicing circumcision, trying to equate it to the totally in-equal and oppressive barbaric practice of FGM.
But you never see them taking up the causes of other suppressed Muslims anywhere else on Earth in scores of other countries
It is simply an excuse to direct hatred towards Jews, if they cared they wouldn't focus just on one country so much.
It is exactly the same mindset and the inverse situation, where the same people attempt to vilify Jews for practicing circumcision, trying to equate it to the totally in-equal and oppressive barbaric practice of FGM.
Johnnytheboy said:
If you are anti-Israeli, what does that mean you want to happen to the Israelis?
It certainly carries overwhelmingly negative connotations. The trouble is that saying 'I do not agree with some of the views or actions of the incumbent, freely elected government of Israel but have no issue at all with regards to the people of Israel or the State of Isreal nor do I harbour any significant issues with regards to Judaism other than it being a religion and therefore generally all a bit daft to get to 'believey' over' is quite long winded.
The problem is probably one of context in many regards. I can criticise actions or policies of the Israeli government freely among my social peers because they know that I am not Antisemitic or Anti-Zionist. But the exact same remark(s) said publicly would probably get me branded as some kind of Anti. I've certainly seen that in environments like New York there is little scope for rational debate and the slightest whiff of not being desperately keen to buff Benji's ballbag will have you branded a Nazi sympathiser who wants to see everyone dead. : D
jakesmith said:
I love the way the hard left care desperately about the oppression of Muslims in Palestine, where they just so happen to be oppressed by Israel and by association, Jews.
But you never see them taking up the causes of other suppressed Muslims anywhere else on Earth in scores of other countries
It is simply an excuse to direct hatred towards Jews, if they cared they wouldn't focus just on one country so much.
It is exactly the same mindset and the inverse situation, where the same people attempt to vilify Jews for practicing circumcision, trying to equate it to the totally in-equal and oppressive barbaric practice of FGM.
Agreed.But you never see them taking up the causes of other suppressed Muslims anywhere else on Earth in scores of other countries
It is simply an excuse to direct hatred towards Jews, if they cared they wouldn't focus just on one country so much.
It is exactly the same mindset and the inverse situation, where the same people attempt to vilify Jews for practicing circumcision, trying to equate it to the totally in-equal and oppressive barbaric practice of FGM.
As I've said before if Israel moved out to the middle of the sea,the rockets would still keep being fired.
They don't care about the land,it's the destruction of Israel.
Look what happened to the greenhouses in Gaza.
As for the Middle East politics, I feel sympathy for the “settlers”. Jews faced a pogrom in Hebron in 1936. I understand people wanting to return - now with protection in the form of the IDF. You never hear about the desecrated and demolished synagogues in East Jerusalem under Jordanian Occupation... or indeed Jordanian Occupation. You only hear about “settler colonialism”. It’s ridiculous, and frankly, East Jerusalem under Israeli control isn’t that free on religion. Jews still cannot pray on the Temple Mount - their holiest site- for fear of upsetting the Muslim worshippers. Then the BBC portray activists like MK Yehuda Glick, who fights for equal prayer rights - as a radical right winger. I think that tells a story.
Solocle said:
Then the BBC portray activists like MK Yehuda Glick, who fights for equal prayer rights - as a radical right winger. I think that tells a story.
Best not go there. I have never seen a balanced BBC report on this - I remember when Orla Guerin was their reporter from that part of the world......jakesmith said:
I love the way the hard left care desperately about the oppression of Muslims in Palestine, where they just so happen to be oppressed by Israel and by association, Jews.
But you never see them taking up the causes of other suppressed Muslims anywhere else on Earth in scores of other countries
.
There's just too many of them! Let's face it, with a couple of exceptions, the only places Muslims are free is in non Muslim countries. But you never see them taking up the causes of other suppressed Muslims anywhere else on Earth in scores of other countries
.
Biker 1 said:
...
Best not go there. I have never seen a balanced BBC report on this - I remember when Orla Guerin was their reporter from that part of the world......
You mean the same Orla Guerin who recently managed to smuggle herself into Yemen to report on the Saudi human rights abuses there, getting past the Saudi media blockade?Best not go there. I have never seen a balanced BBC report on this - I remember when Orla Guerin was their reporter from that part of the world......
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