Bombardier - A sign of things to come?
Discussion
jsf said:
Well this has just backfired on Boeing.
Airbus has just bought 50.1% of the Bombardier C series project, so rather than killing off a small competitor they just made their biggest rival more powerful.
With Airbus having USA production facilities that kills the tariff stone cold dead if they produce enough of the aircraft there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-4164...
Brexit doesn't seem to have put off Airbus investing in a UK based manufacturing plant either.
You have to laugh.
It's not backfired just yet - I suspect the good old land of the free will pull the trade circumvention card. But I like the way they're playing Airbus has just bought 50.1% of the Bombardier C series project, so rather than killing off a small competitor they just made their biggest rival more powerful.
With Airbus having USA production facilities that kills the tariff stone cold dead if they produce enough of the aircraft there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-4164...
Brexit doesn't seem to have put off Airbus investing in a UK based manufacturing plant either.
You have to laugh.
jsf said:
Brexit doesn't seem to have put off Airbus investing in a UK based manufacturing plant either.
Objectively, post Brexit the UK is far more likely to make trade deals with the US and China than the EU ever is. Medium term (particularly with something like components for regional jets) if may actually be prudent for Airbus to have production outside of the EU. Consequently that actually makes quite a bit of sense.Meanwhile, there are a couple of footnotes to make on the Bombardier deal. As reported, Airbus are actually not paying anything for their majority control of the project so for them it is a great deal. Secondly, this fits with their existing expansion plans. The last time that they were shafted by Boeing was the tanker deal (when they were selected by the USAF only to have interference from Boeing backed politicians cancel the deal and have the requirements rewritten so that only the Boeing proposal could win) which called for an expansion to their Alabama operations to add assembly lines to serve the US market. Which is exactly what they now plan to do with CSeries. This also changes the entire dynamic of the trade spat as it is not trying to block imports any more - it would be blocking the creation of Southern blue collar, highly skilled, well paid manufacturing jobs in the US - a strongly pro-Trump demographic in a profoundly Republican region. Trump can decline to call this an attempt to circumvent and instead spin it as a US trade win, more jobs, bringing manufacturing back to America, promoting investment and Making America Great Again. This deal plays well not just for Bombardier and Airbus, but also the Presidential ego if they play it right. Everyone wins except for Boeing, but in the medium term even they don't actually lose. Thinking about it further though - they do actually win to some extent as with Airbus running it there is no basis for the CSeries to grow into a threat to the 737 as they already have the A320 series covering that market, thus the CSeries will be pinned to a part of the market where Boeing do not play (and indeed abandoned years ago).
There ought to be legs in this I reckon?
Edited by DiscoColin on Tuesday 17th October 11:35
Is this good for Belfast? Won’t all of the c series (wings included) now be made in the USA, or is it just the US orders?
Certainly a great deal for Airbus, got it for nothing, possibly a good deal for the (French Quebec) Canadians at Mirabel bombardier plant with increased sales through airbus network and avoiding the tariff. possibly even good for the USA with more jobs at the Airbus facility in Alabama, but I’m not convinced it’s great for the UK yet.
Certainly a great deal for Airbus, got it for nothing, possibly a good deal for the (French Quebec) Canadians at Mirabel bombardier plant with increased sales through airbus network and avoiding the tariff. possibly even good for the USA with more jobs at the Airbus facility in Alabama, but I’m not convinced it’s great for the UK yet.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 18th October 01:18
El stovey said:
Is this good for Belfast? Won’t all of the c series (wings included) now be made in the USA, or is it just the US orders?
The plan as reported speaks of an assembly line in Alabama, so all of the components will still be made where they currently are (wings, fuselage sections, engines and so on) and they will all be shipped to the assembly line then put together into an aeroplane in the US. This is how they make the A320 series on lines in the States, France, Germany and China so is a proven business model. It is the same model as the Eurofighter and others - individual suppliers delivering components for final assembly to multiple production lines.It at least should be good for all really - the premise being that the fiscal strength of Airbus will fuel more orders globally so Bombardier's Quebec production line should still end up getting more work even with all airframes for US customers being put together in Alabama.
DiscoColin said:
El stovey said:
Is this good for Belfast? Won’t all of the c series (wings included) now be made in the USA, or is it just the US orders?
The plan as reported speaks of an assembly line in Alabama, so all of the components will still be made where they currently are (wings, fuselage sections, engines and so on) and they will all be shipped to the assembly line then put together into an aeroplane in the US. This is how they make the A320 series on lines in the States, France, Germany and China so is a proven business model. It is the same model as the Eurofighter and others - individual suppliers delivering components for final assembly to multiple production lines.It at least should be good for all really - the premise being that the fiscal strength of Airbus will fuel more orders globally so Bombardier's Quebec production line should still end up getting more work even with all airframes for US customers being put together in Alabama.
I read some complaints from Québécois about giving away the c series but if overall sales pick up through Airbus's system then hopefully it will be a win win.
Well Canada have now cancelled their order for 88 new Boeing fighter jets and opened it up to bidding again.
In the meantime they have done a deal to buy 18 second hand Australian F18's.
oops
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/12/12/ott...
In the meantime they have done a deal to buy 18 second hand Australian F18's.
oops
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/12/12/ott...
jsf said:
Well Canada have now cancelled their order for 88 new Boeing fighter jets and opened it up to bidding again.
In the meantime they have done a deal to buy 18 second hand Australian F18's.
oops
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/12/12/ott...
Well - the Australian aircraft at least aren't Boeing (having been assembled in Australia from kits supplied by McDonnell Douglas before they merged into Boeing) and they are essentially the same airframe as the CF-18 derivative. Indeed - pilot training is a joint function shared between Canada and Australia for the aircraft IIRC so while there will of course be changes to be made, there ought to be minimal integration costs compared to any other option on the table. So it isn't crazy as short term fixes go.In the meantime they have done a deal to buy 18 second hand Australian F18's.
oops
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/12/12/ott...
The UK government really ought to start lobbying heavily to get the Typhoon firmly in the frame at this point though. Trudeau promised to cancel F35 as a component of his election campaign and now has essentially cut F18 out too (unless Boeing kill the legal challenge, which they are on record already as saying they will not do). This is a very serious opportunity for a key export customer and they really ought to try to cook up some kind of sweetheart deal to make it happen.
Meanwhile, now that all of the Australian EA-18Gs have been delivered : by my reckoning that means that the production line for the Hornet is just about done then (though there are still a handful of procurement programmes that it may still be a contender for)?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-4282...
Bit of a surprise to be honest, but a nice surprise for Bombardier manufacturing. How long before Boeing appeal (if they can?)
Bit of a surprise to be honest, but a nice surprise for Bombardier manufacturing. How long before Boeing appeal (if they can?)
That’s a fantastic result for Bombardier, Northern Ireland and the European aerospace industry. A superb new aircraft will now be able to compete for sales in the world’s largest market.
It’s not such a good result for Boeing, of course, who don’t have a product capable of competing with the C series. I now expect Boeing to try to buy Embraer as soon as possible.
It’s not such a good result for Boeing, of course, who don’t have a product capable of competing with the C series. I now expect Boeing to try to buy Embraer as soon as possible.
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