Bombardier - A sign of things to come?

Bombardier - A sign of things to come?

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Discussion

gadgetmac

14,984 posts

108 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
Just watched a US trade spokesman say that outside of the EU the UK is vulnerable to these kind of actions from the Trump administration. Inside the EU, which is a bigger aircraft marketplace, the UK is somewhat protected. The UK wants to be a little fish in a big pond.

turbobloke

103,942 posts

260 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
Just watched a US trade spokesman say that outside of the EU the UK is vulnerable to these kind of actions from the Trump administration. Inside the EU, which is a bigger aircraft marketplace, the UK is somewhat protected.
Could you expand on that last bit - assuming the spokesman said anything more?

We're still in the EU right now so how did that help?

vonuber

17,868 posts

165 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
Just watched a US trade spokesman say that outside of the EU the UK is vulnerable to these kind of actions from the Trump administration. Inside the EU, which is a bigger aircraft marketplace, the UK is somewhat protected. The UK wants to be a little fish in a big pond.
No worries; fishing and jam will make up the difference.

turbobloke

103,942 posts

260 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
vonuber said:
gadgetmac said:
Just watched a US trade spokesman say that outside of the EU the UK is vulnerable to these kind of actions from the Trump administration. Inside the EU, which is a bigger aircraft marketplace, the UK is somewhat protected. The UK wants to be a little fish in a big pond.
No worries; fishing and jam will make up the difference.
We're in the EU now.

gadgetmac

14,984 posts

108 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
gadgetmac said:
Just watched a US trade spokesman say that outside of the EU the UK is vulnerable to these kind of actions from the Trump administration. Inside the EU, which is a bigger aircraft marketplace, the UK is somewhat protected.
Could you expand on that last bit - assuming the spokesman said anything more?

We're still in the EU right now so how did that help?
He was talking about the future for the UK in these kind of situations and under Trumps 'America first' ethos there will likely be more challenges to existing arrangements.

Sky news is your reference. Turn it on, these news stories cycle every hour or so.

gadgetmac

14,984 posts

108 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
We're in the EU now.
But they are not likely to enter into a trade war on our behalf any more. It's also the UK that will have to do that in the future too - all on its ownsome according to the spokesman.

ScudNorth

44 posts

92 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
I doubt the tariffs would stand should they wind up in front of the NAFTA trade dispute panels, if it even gets that far.

In more positive news for Bombardier, they seem to have found some more buyers for the C-Series. Trudeau has been pushing hard for more trade with China since he was elected.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-bombardier...

turbobloke

103,942 posts

260 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
gadgetmac said:
turbobloke said:
We're in the EU now.
But they are not likely to enter into a trade war on our behalf any more. It's also the UK that will have to do that in the future too - all on its ownsome according to the spokesman.
What exactly have we missed out on? As the EU doesn't have a trade agreement with the USA how is a non-A50 EU state in a better position? Do you really think the EU would start a trade war for Greece - a trade war as you put it?

At the moment from our vantage point within the EU and, hypothetically speaking, if the UK government wanted to do what the USA has just done could they do it?

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
Amazing how a trade row between the US and Canada, that happens to have an impact on a British Company, can be used by some to demonstrate the difficulties the UK may face on leaving the EU.

Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.

Little news about the imminent end of the EU Sugar Beet quotas that could lead to 50% increases in UK production. Perhaps because it's good news?

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

224 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
Didn't they lose a load of train work to a German rival about ten years ago? I.e. When we were still in the eh?

Smiler.

11,752 posts

230 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
Boeing CEO earlier:


MellowshipSlinky

14,696 posts

189 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
markcoznottz said:
Didn't they lose a load of train work to a German rival about ten years ago? I.e. When we were still in the eh?
They lost a bid for a UK contract to Hitachi about 4 years ago.
That was primarily down to Hitachi having less borrowing costs..

55palfers

5,909 posts

164 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
It would be interesting to add up all the "development" money Boeing (and other US aircraft companies) have enjoyed from the US military over the years.

The spin-offs to civilian planes would have been very useful


mike9009

7,005 posts

243 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Amazing how a trade row between the US and Canada, that happens to have an impact on a British Company, can be used by some to demonstrate the difficulties the UK may face on leaving the EU.

Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.

I don't think anyone has intimated this would affect difficulties in the UK leaving the EU. (Apologies if someone had and I missed it.....)

I 'think' the Brexit bandwagon presented that once outside of the EU, other trading nations would want free trade agreements with the UK. The EU were portrayed as a protectionist organisation hindering the UK from free trade agreements globally, hence one proposed reason for the UK leaving the EU.

I 'think' what the events show between US and Canada (specifically Bombardier) is that free trade is not necessarily a global desire between developed countries. (The fact that a Bombardier facility is based in the UK is irrelevant to the discussion)

So extrapolating somewhat, it might be difficult for a smaller economy to negotiate effectively with larger trading economies, as demonstrated by the extreme proposed tariffs imposed by the US on a singular particularly threatening Canadian company. However, a larger body of economies may provide bigger clout than a smaller economy, perhaps?? Canada ($2Bn sales) threatening consequential trade tariffs on Boeing would not be nearly as effective as the EU ($14Bn sales) threatening the same tariffs. <cannot find Boeings UK revenue in 2016!)

I also do not think this is as a result of Trump - it is active lobbying by the government sponsored Boeing. The whole premise of the pot calling the kettle black.

Not sure if I am stupid or scare-mongering. Or perhaps the US are scare-mongering (or are they stupid?)?



Mike

DMN

2,983 posts

139 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
Great summary of the situation here:

https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/91299899731651...

PRTVR

7,101 posts

221 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
55palfers said:
It would be interesting to add up all the "development" money Boeing (and other US aircraft companies) have enjoyed from the US military over the years.

The spin-offs to civilian planes would have been very useful
Just what I was thinking, Boeing may have opened up a can of worms if it's looked into, plus the Canadians may reduce their military spending with them, it may hit them harder than they think.

anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
55palfers said:
It would be interesting to add up all the "development" money Boeing (and other US aircraft companies) have enjoyed from the US military over the years.

The spin-offs to civilian planes would have been very useful
The EU is already taking the USA to court at the WTO for the Washington state subsiding the taxes for Boeing and their 777X program at the Seattle manufacturing and development plant. The action was started in 2014 when Obama was President.

The co-complainants are Brazil; China; India; Japan; Korea, Republic of; Russian Federation; Australia; Canada

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/cases...

Anyone trying to turn this Bombardier story into a Brexit story is an idiot.






Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 27th September 20:41

MellowshipSlinky

14,696 posts

189 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
DMN said:
Great summary of the situation here:

https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/91299899731651...
Great summary, paints a bleak picture for the future.

Ali G

3,526 posts

282 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
And here was me thinking that a Delta competitor in the US was getting boinggg to muscle in with a share of resulting monopolistic booty the reward.

Hey ho - obviously boinggg are not that devious...

Just goes to show, however, how badly needed gov funded regeneration of a badly deprived area can backfire when boinggg doesn't want it to succeed.

Edited by Ali G on Wednesday 27th September 20:47

hairyben

8,516 posts

183 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Amazing how a trade row between the US and Canada, that happens to have an impact on a British Company, can be used by some to demonstrate the difficulties the UK may face on leaving the EU.

Either stupidity or wilful scaremongering.

Little news about the imminent end of the EU Sugar Beet quotas that could lead to 50% increases in UK production. Perhaps because it's good news?
I think you'll find explantions that everything from the mexican earthquake to the rise of HIV and the extinction of dinosaurs was the fault of brexit once you look.

Back in the real world, hasnt boeing/yank politics colluded and done anything and everything they can to prevent competition in the american market ever since theres been a passenger jet market ? Same old same old?