18 year old electrician paying the tuition fees of 'toffs'

[anonymous-user]

fblm said:

Interesting. Well the guardian claims charitable status helps private schools avoid vat and biz rates to the tune of 500m. On the flip side private schools offer 350m of means tested bursaries and relieve the state system of 3bn liability to teach those kids. Real charities or not, seems like a good deal for the tax payer to me.

Perhaps the solution should involve improving state schools not punishing private schools?

It's an impossible conundrum, given our system, so I try not to care and crack on. I sometimes forget this and drag myself into a debate that I shouldn't.

[anonymous-user]

desolate said:

It's an impossible conundrum...

Ban politicians and civil servants from sending their kids to private schools. I give it till Christmas before we've nicked Singapores lunch money and are flushing Japans head down the toilet at break time

[anonymous-user]

fblm said:

Ban politicians and civil servants from sending their kids to private schools. I give it till Christmas before we've nicked Singapores lunch money and are flushing Japans head down the toilet at break time

Or pay teachers a starting salary of 45k rising to 150k before any management responsibility. Expense accounts in the local tit bar for when someone gets 9 A*s. (or vouchers for Harvey Nicks)

Maybe both.

[V8 Fettler]

V8 Fettler said:

Breadvan72 said:

Some figures on graduate earnings, unsurprisingly showing that Russell group graduates do quite well -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41693230
-
-

Is median the best descriptor?

To myself, the graphs have to be based on mean not median, otherwise there's no-one earning over £100k per annum.

Bricklayers' daywork rate is currently up to approx £400, but does vary geographically.

[Angrybiker]

V8 Fettler said:

To myself, the graphs have to be based on mean not median, otherwise there's no-one earning over £100k per annum.

Bricklayers' daywork rate is currently up to approx £400, but does vary geographically.

Who pays a bricky 400 a day? I want to tell my builder about it.

[edh]

fblm said:

Ban politicians and civil servants from sending their kids to private schools. I give it till Christmas before we've nicked Singapores lunch money and are flushing Japans head down the toilet at break time

Completely agree. Give them a direct incentive to make state schools work.

[V8 Fettler]

Angrybiker said:

V8 Fettler said:

To myself, the graphs have to be based on mean not median, otherwise there's no-one earning over £100k per annum.

Bricklayers' daywork rate is currently up to approx £400, but does vary geographically.

Who pays a bricky 400 a day? I want to tell my builder about it.

Why? Is he charging you more?

[Angrybiker]

V8 Fettler said:

Angrybiker said:

V8 Fettler said:

To myself, the graphs have to be based on mean not median, otherwise there's no-one earning over £100k per annum.

Bricklayers' daywork rate is currently up to approx £400, but does vary geographically.

Who pays a bricky 400 a day? I want to tell my builder about it.

Why? Is he charging you more?

No, he did a great job so I'd like to do him a favour.

[anonymous-user]

]

fblm said:

I only know the public school I went to on a bursary does all that stuff and more to keep it's status. ...

When I am Evil Emperor any school that cannot teach people how to use apostrophes will lose charitable status (and be nuked from orbit).

[Murph7355]

Breadvan72 said:

When I am Evil Emperor any school that cannot teach people how to use apostrophes will lose charitable status (and be nuked from orbit).

Exam question of the day... Which is worse - using an old form of the possessive apostrophe or littering one's posts with 'whatevs', `obvs' (note no apostrophes), etc. (Ignoring the age demographic of the author)?

[anonymous-user]

Breadvan72 said:

When I am Evil Emperor any school that cannot teach people how to use apostrophes will lose charitable status (and be nuked from orbit).

A less drastic option would be to make the development of over enthusiastic auto correct software a capital offence.

[dandarez]

fblm said:

Breadvan72 said:

When I am Evil Emperor any school that cannot teach people how to use apostrophes will lose charitable status (and be nuked from orbit).

A less drastic option would be to make the development of over enthusiastic auto correct software a capital offence.

Or even less drastic, hold back from being a constant nitpicker!

Unless lice eggs are spotted, obviously.

[anonymous-user]

dandarez said:

fblm said:

Breadvan72 said:

When I am Evil Emperor any school that cannot teach people how to use apostrophes will lose charitable status (and be nuked from orbit).

A less drastic option would be to make the development of over enthusiastic auto correct software a capital offence.

Or even less drastic, hold back from being a constant nitpicker!

Unless lice eggs are spotted, obviously.

Nah, it's a fair cop. I'm guilty of laughing at "your stupid" whenever it comes up. Almost daily.

[Mandalore]

fblm said:

dandarez said:

fblm said:

Breadvan72 said:

When I am Evil Emperor any school that cannot teach people how to use apostrophes will lose charitable status (and be nuked from orbit).

A less drastic option would be to make the development of over enthusiastic auto correct software a capital offence.

Or even less drastic, hold back from being a constant nitpicker!

Unless lice eggs are spotted, obviously.

Nah, it's a fair cop. I'm guilty of laughing at "your stupid" whenever it comes up. Almost daily.

The name 'Ming the Merciless' has been taken already.

So what do you call an Empiric BV27?

[V8 Fettler]

Angrybiker said:

V8 Fettler said:

Angrybiker said:

V8 Fettler said:

To myself, the graphs have to be based on mean not median, otherwise there's no-one earning over £100k per annum.

Bricklayers' daywork rate is currently up to approx £400, but does vary geographically.

Who pays a bricky 400 a day? I want to tell my builder about it.

Why? Is he charging you more?

No, he did a great job so I'd like to do him a favour.

Found randomly https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/R-J-M-brickwork/jobs/...

[anonymous-user]

I had a drink in the King's Arms in Oxford last night with the bloke who is currently in charge of my old college. He thinks that removing student fees would simply be a subsidy for the middle classes. He would retain the current system but stop calling it a loan and brand it as a graduate tax. He says that the fees are not deterring applicants from non middle class backgrounds, but that "I can't go to Oxbridge, it's full of weird posh people" is. Thus he and others spend time trying to combat the latter.

[turbobloke]

Breadvan72 said:

I had a drink in the King's Arms in Oxford last night with the bloke who is currently in charge of my old college. He thinks that removing student fees would simply be a subsidy for the middle classes. He would retain the current system but stop calling it a loan and brand it as a graduate tax. He says that the fees are not deterring applicants from non middle class backgrounds, but that "I can't go to Oxbridge, it's full of weird posh people" is. Thus he and others spend time trying to combat the latter.

He and the others will need to work on a decent slice of state school teacherdom as well. That's the message they put out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Research by the Sutton Trust (above) sounded the alarm several years ago and the really blatant stuff has made it into the dailies. The pace of change in terms of awareness is slow. Sobering reading ahead from various sources...the headlines say a lot if reading time is short.

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/state-school...

http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/comment/0032877-the-real-...

[turbobloke]

Whatever the overall position may be, Bullingdon and a pig's head have travelled far and wide without going anywhere.

Caesarian Sunday and Suicide Sunday either stay at home or they're fundamentally more egalitarian.

[anonymous-user]

Many of my state school teachers in the 70s had Oxbridge degrees and that helped when working on my application. I don't suppose that there are now many state school teachers from Oxbridge.

[Derek Smith]

turbobloke said:

He and the others will need to work on a decent slice of state school teacherdom as well. That's the message they put out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/educat...

Research by the Sutton Trust (above) sounded the alarm several years ago and the really blatant stuff has made it into the dailies. The pace of change in terms of awareness is slow. Sobering reading ahead from various sources...the headlines say a lot if reading time is short.

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/state-school...

http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/comment/0032877-the-real-...

43% of teachers never advised students to apply for OxBridge. That’s a great headline figure, but that’s all it is.

49% of secondary school teachers said they always or would normally advise qualified students to apply for O/B unis.

60% (of the 43%) of teachers who said they would not advise qualified students to apply said they never advised students which uni to go for. Many might feel that a teacher should merely facilitate rather than dictate. These kids, perhaps, should know their own mind. It is open to argument whether teachers should, in such a major decision for the student, push their own beliefs.

For those who think teachers should advise then they must agree with the 13 or 17% of the 43% who would advise students not to apply if they thought they would not be happy there. If that is their considered opinion then fair enough perhaps?

25% would advise those students whom they believed would not get in not to apply. One wonders why, given their qualifications, but if the teachers have a valid reason for their advice then that’s what they should say. That's if you think they should give advice.

So 60% + 13 (17)% + 25% from the 43% takes some of the bite away from the headline.

I would not criticise the headline. It is doing what headlines are supposed to do, catch attention. However, with such a high percentage, even if time is tight, one would assume that those for whom the headline is not merely a reinforcement of what they believe would read further, although I was unable to easily find the 60% figure in either the TES or CS articles.

There is a lot of argument that there should be a higher proportion of state school students going to OB. It might be a good bit of social engineering. However, I’m not sure that even if it is a good idea whether teachers in an advisory position should be told to go against what they believe if their opinions are not prejudiced.

Perhaps it might be better to raise the standard, or is it just status, of other universities.