Sally Jones (white widow) killed by drone,

Sally Jones (white widow) killed by drone,

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Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 13th October 2017
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stitched said:
.............
Despite what he had been made into, I still regret her sons death, or more accurately losing him to fanatics, bear in mind that at 12 my son would have looked to me for the right thing to do. Probably would have pulled the trigger if told.
At 18 I hope he is beyond being duped so, he has a strong respect for his moral beliefs.
The crime here belongs only to his mother.
These, I think, are the fairest and most decent thoughts posted so far on this thread.

With advances in modern warfare, coupled with quite a new kind of enemy who has unconventional tactics and proves quite ruthless, I think we seem to be adjusting our morality in the wrong direction to cope with them. Technically, in legal terms, we do not support the death penalty. We do not view children as combatants. We believe in a fair trial. That goes out of the window in this case.

It's very mixed up and I don't think it's a situation where anyone can safely judge it to be absolutely just or unjust.

croyde

22,709 posts

229 months

Friday 13th October 2017
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Love the quote from her ex.

I'm effing glad she is dead!!

To which Nick Ferrari on LBC said.

I suspect that relationship didn't end well.

Willhire89

1,327 posts

204 months

Friday 13th October 2017
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Surprising that Samantha Lewthwaite has yet to be vapourised - if still in Africa she must be well protected...........either that or she is in Lewisham living in a council flat on PIP with a Motability Tiguan

Jawknee is innocent

2,574 posts

160 months

Friday 13th October 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
With an enemy who constantly changes tactics, cutting our cloth to meet the circumstances is the most logical way to act.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Friday 13th October 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Children in battle with guns are combatants at that time. If taken they are treated differently.
Drone action is targeting the enemy just like a sniper, same thing, same rules really. It is not a "death penalty"
Fair trial is given if taken and the prisoner is not just a PoW, international rules apply. (or should)

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 13th October 2017
quotequote all
Jawknee is innocent said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
With an enemy who constantly changes tactics, cutting our cloth to meet the circumstances is the most logical way to act.
Of course it's logical, if considered in isolation.

The morality of war is questionable, again obviously, but this type of killing is even more so.

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Friday 13th October 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Interesting that you seem more concerned about the value of the perpetrator's life than the potential and actual victims. Jones was enthusiastically advocating war crime and genocide.

Arrest and trial would be the perfect option, certainly. Not practical, unfortunately, so let her continue or stop her to save others, possibly.

DurianIceCream

999 posts

93 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
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eldar said:
Arrest and trial would be the perfect option, certainly. Not practical, unfortunately, so let her continue or stop her to save others, possibly.
I don't see the need for arrest and trial, even if it were possible. This is not extra-judicial killing, this is lawfully killing an enemy combatant in a war zone.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
eldar said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Interesting that you seem more concerned about the value of the perpetrator's life than the potential and actual victims. Jones was enthusiastically advocating war crime and genocide.

Arrest and trial would be the perfect option, certainly. Not practical, unfortunately, so let her continue or stop her to save others, possibly.
That's clearly not what I said.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
stitched said:
...
Despite what he had been made into, I still regret her sons death, or more accurately losing him to fanatics, bear in mind that at 12 my son would have looked to me for the right thing to do. ...

The crime here belongs only to his mother.
Well said. Those here who are crowing about the death of a child who had been brutalised and brain washed by his own mother and her associates are predictably PH but it's still depressing stuff to read.



anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
This film "Eye in the Sky" did not get the recognition that it deserved - a tense examination of the ethics of drone warfare. Intelligent script, strong cast, well made, and well worth a watch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_(2015...

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 14th October 09:06

Octoposse

2,153 posts

184 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
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Interesting to know what the dynamic and mood is within the crumbling Islamic State.

How many are in the "my God, why have you forsaken us, how have we failed you?" camp, and how many never believed that gumpf from the beginning? Just a convenient opportunity to play with guns, act big, relax in the evenings with recreational rape, genocide and looted viagra.

Biker 1

7,696 posts

118 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
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Octoposse said:
Interesting to know what the dynamic and mood is within the crumbling Islamic State.

How many are in the "my God, why have you forsaken us, how have we failed you?" camp, and how many never believed that gumpf from the beginning? Just a convenient opportunity to play with guns, act big, relax in the evenings with recreational rape, genocide and looted viagra.
Indeed. Many must be kicking themselves they were duped by IS propaganda, promising them Heaven on Earth & the rise of the worldwide Caliphate. Did any of them, including Jones, actually believe that they were capable of either converting the entire human population to Islam or killing those that refused?
Even those that came from crummy sink estates in Blighty must be thinking how good they had it before joining up.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
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Breadvan72 said:
Well said. Those here who are crowing about the death of a child who had been brutalised and brain washed by his own mother and her associates are predictably PH but it's still depressing stuff to read.
Oh get a life.....no one is "crowing"....just saying it/he is a lost cause due to his mental mother.....as such the resulting action was required, regrettable but none the less required.........

stitched

3,813 posts

172 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
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Stickyfinger said:
Breadvan72 said:
Well said. Those here who are crowing about the death of a child who had been brutalised and brain washed by his own mother and her associates are predictably PH but it's still depressing stuff to read.
Oh get a life.....no one is "crowing"....just saying it/he is a lost cause due to his mental mother.....as such the resulting action was required, regrettable but none the less required.........
Actually no it was not required.
There was no rule I have ever seen or heard of to say this was a requirement.
It was desireable to remove a person perceived as an active force for recruitment, had she been killed by a well aimed mortar round then the child would have been collateral damage.
Had a sniper shot her and the boy died in the crash, that would be collateral damage.
Acting on intelligence and live stream video a decision was made to kill both occupants of the vehicle, I don't say I disagree with the decision, it is one I do not envy the controller, but to argue that his death was a regrettable requirement is completely false.
He was killed with the same level of choice as his hostage victim, who at least had chosen to take the risk of being there.
The fault, and crime, are the mothers.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
Stickyfinger said:
Oh get a life.....no one is "crowing"....just saying it/he is a lost cause due to his mental mother.....as such the resulting action was required, regrettable but none the less required.........
I see that you are one of those who responds with anger and insult to views he does not agree with. Poor angry you.

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
Stickyfinger said:
Oh get a life.....no one is "crowing"....just saying it/he is a lost cause due to his mental mother.....as such the resulting action was required, regrettable but none the less required.........
I see that you are one of those who responds with anger and insult to views he does not agree with. Poor angry you.
And insults such as "crowing" and "predictably PH" at those expressing a different view to yours with nothing aimed directly at you personally is any different on the antagonism scale?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
The crowing is up above for all to see, and if you want to take a reading on the general ethics of PH, just read some threads. Weary commentary on the nasty-mindedness of some of our fellow car bores is not the same as petulant expressions of "go away, person who thinks differently to me!".

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
The crowing is up above for all to see, and if you want to take a reading on the general ethics of PH, just read some threads. Weary commentary on the nasty-mindedness of some of our fellow car bores is not the same as petulant expressions of "go away, person who thinks differently to me!".
I disagree. A statement was made of opinion that the lad was a risk going forward, whether his fault or not. His mum mistakenly expected him to be a human shield despite the fact that he is already a proven killer for the cause despite his age. Folks on here expressed that his death was justified. You thought different and was the first who played the man, not the ball with your insults.

DoubleSix

11,691 posts

175 months

Saturday 14th October 2017
quotequote all
Breadvan72 said:
This film "Eye in the Sky" did not get the recognition that it deserved - a tense examination of the ethics of drone warfare. Intelligent script, strong cast, well made, and well worth a watch

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_(2015...

Edited by Breadvan72 on Saturday 14th October 09:06
Eh, really?

We must have watched a different film. I just saw a shallow, 1D heart tugger with silly make believe bond style gadgets.