Chancellor asking for advice to aid young people

[eatcustard]

I would double tax all students that see themselves as gender fluid.
But would reduce uni fees to zero on those that do a STEM degree.

[Murph7355]

crankedup said:

...This equity release perhaps should be taxed?

As soon as they buy a boat, it is

I would also suspect that the companies providing the equity release monies pay tax (and that the old duffers are getting less money as a result) etc.

[JB!]

StevieBee said:

oyster said:

It's hilarious that you're suggesting the young should work for things, when the older generations sit on £trillions of property equity that they haven't worked for either!!

Oooh. Now then! That's a broad statement that doesn't apply to all by a long way. If my Mum (85 today) were on PH, she'd be on you like a ton of bricks so I'll speak on her behalf.

Mum and Dad were from working class backgrounds in the East End. They purchased their first flat in the early 60s, much to the distain of my father's family: "Property ownership is not for the likes of us, son...don't get ideas above your station"...etc. Second home in Leytonstone in the mid 60s. I came along and they moved out to Essex/London borders to a modest three bed end of terrace.

Both of them despised the idea of debt and both worked their fingers to the bone to pay the mortgage off as soon as they could which they managed to do by the early 80s. Dad was a model maker at Ford. Mum was a secretary.

My Mum still lives in the house. To say that they didn't work for it is way way off the truth. And they are not alone; most of their generation took the same approach. They have benefited from rising house prices since but that is not their fault. They have never received state hand-outs (even when they were entitled to it), no family money to underpin them, and everything they got, they most certainly earned.

It took me a long while to recognise this but their approach to financial management was spot on and probably more relevant today than ever before: work hard, save hard, live within your means and spend what you've got, not what you might get.

That would be the same generation that fight against new housing being built, allowed right-to-buy but didn't push for money to be spent on new stock?





http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/res...

That generation that are now asking silly figures for housing they paid buttons for?

I think there is fair accusation that an entire generation has had their cake and eaten it, and fk the rest of you.

Edited by JB! on Monday 16th October 18:29

[Moonhawk]

I'd abolish stamp duty - and replace it with CGT on first homes, albeit at a reduced rate.

Getting on (or moving up) the housing ladder is hard enough without being stung for a huge wad of tax up front too.

It would also make moving whilst in negative or neutral equity less costly - and would also lower the cost of making a sideways move to find work.

Anybody who has paid stamp duty on their current home would be exempt for their next house move.

[Randy Winkman]

austinsmirk said:

tell them to pay attention at school.

go to school

turn off moron book.

stop drawing dreadful tattoo's all over themselves in a bid to be unique

try and have a job/career instead of wanting to be "rich"/ "famous", eg famous because you are famous.

do a worthwhile degree or learn a decent trade.

or back on track: try saving up for things and working for them, instead of living your life on credit instead of a "have now" culture.

[Wobbegong]

GIYess said:

Definitely reduce reliance on stupid degrees and focus more on apprenticeship/ in work training. That way young people are,
- Earning small amounts when young and by the time the are into their 20s they have the knowledge and experience to have higher paid jobs,
- Could have saved instead of being loaded with debt,
- Increased productivity country wide
- Experts in subjects having seen/worked on real life examples of problems etc that have cropped up.
- greater work ethic instead of having 3+ yrs of sitting about doing nothing.

Seriously, the university system is severely flawed. And I came through it.

There are a few 16 year olds where I work (manufacturing) on internal apprenticeship schemes. They didn’t want to go the university route due to worries over debt and lack of confidence in the courses. The manager doesn’t want apprentices ‘too poisoned by the education system’. It works out well

[Troubleatmill]

Just let every British kid in education see how
a/ South Korean kids
b/ 3rd world kids

...place an importance of their education.


Start there - and we have the foundation for doing things better.

[anonymous-user]

85Carrera said:

Actually he's right. The young today do not want to make the sacrifices previous generations did to get on the housing ladder; they expect everything to be handed to them on a plate.

Stop thinking like this and actually tackle the issues. It’s so easy for people to just blame the young people-it’s being going on since the year dot.

Personally I’d reduce student loan repayments, or increase the threshold (as the tories are already talking about doing).

[crankedup]

Murph7355 said:

crankedup said:

Every Government intervention which weakens the financial advantages of married life has a price to pay within the Social fabric of society.

I'm not convinced fiscal incentives keep marriages together (though many of my friends reckon that in my case that is almost certainly a lie as there's no other reason my OH would be with me ).

I'm not even sure that marriage is essential for the social fabric of our society. I think strong relationships are, especially where children are involved. But that doesn't have to mean "marriage".

I tend to take a 'rees - mogg' thought process.

[crankedup]

Murph7355 said:

crankedup said:

...This equity release perhaps should be taxed?

As soon as they buy a boat, it is

I would also suspect that the companies providing the equity release monies pay tax (and that the old duffers are getting less money as a result) etc.

Agreed, perhaps that is enough to satisfy the taxman and also the equity release, provided it's spent with UK based Companies, benefits the general economy. Small beer it's true.

[Murph7355]

crankedup said:

I tend to take a 'rees - mogg' thought process.

I generally like the chap (I started a thread on him...). But some of his views are out of touch. Marriage is handled in a very cock eyed fashion in this country.

(I'm married btw. Very happily so. In a church and everything...but I'm not naive enough to think "marriage" is the bedrock itself).

[V8 Fettler]

Factory-built social housing on a large scale, university tuition fees capped at £3k, requirement for all contractors and suppliers on public sector projects to provide apprenticeships.

[PRTVR]

The problem is that they once had people they could go to to find out what the kids wanted,

[Moonhawk]

StevieBee said:

My Mum still lives in the house. To say that they didn't work for it is way way off the truth. And they are not alone; most of their generation took the same approach. They have benefited from rising house prices since but that is not their fault.

Technically - if your mum still lives in the house and hasn't released equity - then she hasn't benefited at all from rising house prices. It doesn't matter whether her house is worth £5 or £5 million - it's all on paper until the asset is disposed of.

[alock]

crankedup said:

Apparently the equity release is becoming ever popular amongst mature home owners. Spending the cash on such things as holidays, cars, boats and other trivials that make life sweeter. Surely the families set to inherit can't bemoan thier parents good fortune? This equity release perhaps should be taxed?

I've planned equity release into my retirement. I'm paying for a house that is a stretch to afford and therefore only paying 12% into my pension. My retirement is planned on pension and the lump sum equity release.

If equity released was taxed, I wouldn't have moved to my current house and would still be in the smaller house I made available for a young family.

Everything has consequences.

Edited to add the real choice I faced 5 years ago.

Option 1: Live mortgage free in what would be an ideal home for a young family while paying an extra £2000/month from my gross salary into my pension.
Option 2: Sell the house to a young family and get a mortgage with my £1200/month from net salary.

How is is option 1 better for the exchequer or society? Why should my house value be taxed when I'm paying for it with taxed income?

Edited by alock on Tuesday 17th October 09:08

[Murph7355]

Fittster said:

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/01/14/w...

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_...

Being the Chancellor looking after the economy and being a housewife in charge of a household budget is fundamentally different.

Indeed. Balancing the books is still a requirement however.

Or do you think it wise to hold nearly 2tn of national debt?

Moonhawk said:

I'd abolish stamp duty - and replace it with CGT on first homes, albeit at a reduced rate.

Getting on (or moving up) the housing ladder is hard enough without being stung for a huge wad of tax up front too.

It would also make moving whilst in negative or neutral equity less costly - and would also lower the cost of making a sideways move to find work.

Anybody who has paid stamp duty on their current home would be exempt for their next house move.

That might be a good idea... Though governments wouldn't be able to resist taxing at both ends.

[sidicks]

crankedup said:

Apparently the equity release is becoming ever popular amongst mature home owners. Spending the cash on such things as holidays, cars, boats and other trivials that make life sweeter. Surely the families set to inherit can't bemoan thier parents good fortune? This equity release perhaps should be taxed?

Why would additional tax be due on people spending their own money?

[98elise]

oyster said:

85Carrera said:

oyster said:

It's hilarious that you're suggesting the young should work for things, when the older generations sit on £trillions of property equity that they haven't worked for either!!

And that is broadly untaxed.


This is the real elephant in the room.
The UK is in huge debt (government and personal) and we're still running up a sizeable annual deficit. Yet we have trillions of unearned, untaxed money tied up in residential property.

Actually he's right. The young today do not want to make the sacrifices previous generations did to get on the housing ladder; they expect everything to be handed to them on a plate.

On topic - best thing Hammond could do is resign but failing that simplify the tax system including abolishing NI and introducing a flat rate of tax relief for pension contributions (ideally based on age so the earlier you save the higher the rate of tax relief you receive)

What sacrifices have I made to get a £million pound house?
I can tell you - I have worked just as hard as everyone else, except the difference is I got lucky about when I was born. And I haven't paid tax on that luck.

All the time need to live in a house you have no benefit from the value. If you move to another area with similar house prices then again you have no benefit.

Take this example. My mother bough her house 50 years ago for 3.5k. Its now worth a little over 200k. She doesn't have 200k in her hand, she simply lives in the same house she bought 50 years ago.

If she needed to move to a bungalow then she would effectively have 200k profit to be taxed on. The majority of that would be 40% so she could be looking at an 80k tax bill just to move a few miles, but of course she can't now afford that bungalow as 120k buys very little in the area.

The worst solution to the housing crisis is not to tax people more, that just adds to the problem. The solution is to get building.

[crankedup]

Murph7355 said:

crankedup said:

I tend to take a 'rees - mogg' thought process.

I generally like the chap (I started a thread on him...). But some of his views are out of touch. Marriage is handled in a very cock eyed fashion in this country.

(I'm married btw. Very happily so. In a church and everything...but I'm not naive enough to think "marriage" is the bedrock itself).

Yes I would agree that marriage is perhaps no longer a bedrock, but my view is that the dilution of the 'old fashioned' standards is a backward step. We are not going to agree on this aspect of British life it seems. My daughter is happily married and our son lives happily with his female partner. I guess that is all that matters, that people are happy, content.

[crankedup]

Troubleatmill said:

Just let every British kid in education see how
a/ South Korean kids
b/ 3rd world kids

...place an importance of their education.


Start there - and we have the foundation for doing things better.

That particular exercise was completed recently. The UK kids were found to be completely inadequate up against thier 'competitors'. We do not live and die to be educated, we know how important it is but seem to choose a less strict regime of education. Having said that the S.Koreans have the highest suicide % in the World, thanks to relentless education requirements and the fact the parents deem success as the highest badge of honour. Anything less is deep embarrassment to the family, relentless pressure to succeed is not the way to go, seems somewhere between the two examples would be perfect!