Scots to bring in minimum price booze

[HTP99]

Sa Calobra said:

TheJimi said:

Won't make a blind bit of difference, imo.

Just means that those desperate enough for alcohol who are priced out by the changes will be either driven to more desperate measures to get their hands on it, or will revert to some other form of high.

TBH true. For generations it's too late to do anything else. For future ones though at least still all the offers and double the pricing. You've got to start somewhere.

I'm indifferent to this, however there was an "expert" on the radio last week who did say that it would likely be 10-20 years before the full effects of this minimum pricing structure is seen.

[hairyben]

Moonhawk said:

No - but all it takes is for some enterprising soul to set up a mobile offie, driving round council estates flogging cheap booze from the back of a van.

Stick a quid 'surcharge' on each bottle - jobs a goodun.

20 years ago when the price of alcohol was higher and the difference between here and france greater there was a chap near us that would do calais runs all the time and flogged it out of his garage - even the local bobbies used him.

[Sa Calobra]

Better that's it's at some point on the horizon than even more generations stopped from seeing their potential or just blighted.

It's possible to be poor and healthy and happy.

I know that's possibly a hard concept to understand to some money hungry PHers.

I'd also like to see the gambling industry scaled back massively but I fear it's too strong a lobby/greases palms to also be included in any government control like minimum pricing.

Both alcohol and gambling are destructive addictions.

[grumbledoak]

Sa Calobra said:

It's possible to be poor and healthy and happy.

So why don't you go tell the Scots how to do it? Then they won't need the minimum pricing.

[Sa Calobra]

grumbledoak said:

So why don't you go tell the Scots how to do it? Then they won't need the minimum pricing.

Just because you don't have the latest iPhone or lease Audi doesnt make things bad. Many people get by.

[crankedup]

Sa Calobra said:

grumbledoak said:

So why don't you go tell the Scots how to do it? Then they won't need the minimum pricing.

Just because you don't have the latest iPhone or lease Audi doesnt make things bad. Many people get by.

Nanny state politics, the worst of the worst. Easy target for the do-gooders to pat themselves on the back whilst feeling superior. They need to tackle the root causes within Society not take the easy road to stardom

[r11co]

Sa Calobra said:

TBH true. For generations it's too late to do anything else. For future ones though at least still all the offers and double the pricing. You've got to start somewhere.

Oh FFS! Take a look at the link I posted to the research carried out about alcohol related problems and climate/environment. Raising prices is not a 'start', except maybe a false one.

Perhaps in three generations' time when the prices are at Icelandic levels (where the cheapest bottle of vodka is £30 and a can of lager is about £3) and alcoholism is also at Icelandic levels the virtue signallers will admit what science knows already that they got it wrong.

I doubt it though - it'll probably just be another politicians' logic response - the medicine is ineffective so perhaps we should increase the dose...

HTP99 said:

I'm indifferent to this, however there was an "expert" on the radio last week who did say that it would likely be 10-20 years before the full effects of this minimum pricing structure is seen.

That sound like they are preparing their excuses already for when it makes not a blind bit of difference.

The real irony of all of this though is that at the same time they are forging ahead with plans to raise the price of alcohol in order to curb the problem of abuse Nationalist MSPs are lobbying for heroin to be given free to users with families, one of the arguments for doing so being that addicts are spending all they have feeding their habit rather than their offspring.

You couldn't make it up!

Edited by r11co on Monday 20th November 10:09

[irc]

Lord Marylebone said:

I don't wish to pry into your affairs, but that seems like a lot. You drink 47 units of alcohol per week. The recommended weekly limit is 14. Is there a reason you drink so much?

Recommended by who. The UK is the only country in the world with that limit. Are the rest all wrong?

"Male drinking guidelines vary enormously around the world, from 52 units a week in Fiji to 35 units in Spain, all the way down to seven units in Guyana. There is no other country in the world that has the same guidelines as the UK."

Moderate alcohol consumption is associated with lower death rates.

"As this graph shows, the risk of death declines substantially at low levels of alcohol consumption and then rises, but it does not reach the level of a teetotaller until the person is consuming somewhere between 40 and 60 grams of alcohol a day, which is to say between 35 and 50 units a week."

https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-great-alcohol-c...

I'm somewhere in lower end of that 35-50 unit a week area probably. Age late 50s, no health issues whatsoever., active jogger, hillwalker, cyclist, (cycled 1900 miles in 6 weeks earlier this year) (while having a couple of beers most nights).

The 50p level doesn't just affect rotgut alcohol. Decent major brands like Grouse, Gordons etc are often on special at £15 a litre. £20 after the new law. Why should responsible drinkers like me and the majority be penalised because some people abuse alcohol? What next? A pork pie tax because some people are fat bds?

I often choose to drink stuff that won't be affected like IPA craft beer and malt whisky but I also drink the likes of Grouse. I'll be stockpiling before May. Thereafter I'll look at internet orders in bulk from England. If that isn't possible I visit relatives in England a few times a year. I'll have a loaded car coming back.

This law will affect moderate drinkers on low incomes, not me. I'm not convinced it will save many lives. Alcoholics will still drink and just spend less on rent, food, childred's clothing, whatever.

[Driver101]

irc said:

Recommended by who. The UK is the only country in the world with that limit. Are the rest all wrong?

"Male drinking guidelines vary enormously around the world, from 52 units a week in Fiji to 35 units in Spain, all the way down to seven units in Guyana. There is no other country in the world that has the same guidelines as the UK."

Moderate alcohol consumption is associated with lower death rates.

"As this graph shows, the risk of death declines substantially at low levels of alcohol consumption and then rises, but it does not reach the level of a teetotaller until the person is consuming somewhere between 40 and 60 grams of alcohol a day, which is to say between 35 and 50 units a week."

https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-great-alcohol-c...

I'm somewhere in lower end of that 35-50 unit a week area probably. Age late 50s, no health issues whatsoever., active jogger, hillwalker, cyclist, (cycled 1900 miles in 6 weeks earlier this year) (while having a couple of beers most nights).

The 50p level doesn't just affect rotgut alcohol. Decent major brands like Grouse, Gordons etc are often on special at £15 a litre. £20 after the new law. Why should responsible drinkers like me and the majority be penalised because some people abuse alcohol? What next? A pork pie tax because some people are fat bds?

I often choose to drink stuff that won't be affected like IPA craft beer and malt whisky but I also drink the likes of Grouse. I'll be stockpiling before May. Thereafter I'll look at internet orders in bulk from England. If that isn't possible I visit relatives in England a few times a year. I'll have a loaded car coming back.

This law will affect moderate drinkers on low incomes, not me. I'm not convinced it will save many lives. Alcoholics will still drink and just spend less on rent, food, childred's clothing, whatever.

Gordons will be £18.75 as it's 37.5% alcohol.

If you're a responsible drinker will the fact you have to pay a few quid extra during the festive period special offers really be that significant to you?

Gordons is £16 per litre in any offer I've seen. I had a few supermarket leaflets posted through the door tonight.

[irc]

Driver101 said:

Gordons will be £18.75 as it's 37.5% alcohol.

If you're a responsible drinker will the fact you have to pay a few quid extra during the festive period special offers really be that significant to you?

Gordons is £16 per litre in any offer I've seen. I had a few supermarket leaflets posted through the door tonight.

Pay a few extra quid at Christmas? There are special offers all year. Should I be happy the SNP are costing me money? On top of my council tax increase. .

Edited by irc on Thursday 23 November 05:33

[Driver101]

irc said:

Tanqueray 1L (43% ABV) currently £16 at Tesco. (will be around £22 after SNP nanny state law) Better than Gordons

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/tanqueray-gin-1l-...

Pay a few extra quid at Christmas? There are special offers all year. Should I be happy the SNP are costing me money? On top of my council tax increase. .

According to my Tesco it's £25.50 for 1l. That's above the minimum by a margin.

Your hot deal is from 6 years ago. How did you find a 6 year old offer?

[Tony427]

Somewhat under-reported in the Budget speech was Hammonds suggestion to beating the cheap cider rocket fuel for alccies.

The Scots have decided that everyone should pay more for their booze, especially and disproportionately those who buy low strength beers, lagers and value for money wines. Doubling the cost of a 3.8 % lager to combat superstrength drinks is just stupid.

Hammond has instead suggested that he will actually target just those superstrength and very cheap industrially produced white ciders so beloved of the dependent drinker, leaving the vast majority of the poopulation free to enjoy their tipple of choice without the interference of the Nanny state.

Sensible measures at last. ( if you pardon the pun).

Cheers,

Tony

[AJL308]

Driver101 said:

AJL308 said:

Wonderful - so the alcoholic who has 14 quid in their pocket has a choice between three litres of cider or a 700ml bottle of Vodka. Which does Ms Sturgeon think they'll go for and which is more harmful?

Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 16th November 18:24

If they cost the same they'll have the same amount of units of alcohol.

If they have the same units of alcohol can one be more dangerous than the other?

Because one is much more concentrated and can do far more damage far quicker.

[AJL308]

V8 Fettler said:

Lord Marylebone said:

I suppose the big question is:

Why do the Scottish have such a problem with alcohol?

Northern European; the Scandinavians deal with the problem by using price and strangling the supply. In my experience, the Finns can be demon drinkers when they are let loose, as can the Icelandics.

The Scandinavians (well, the Swedish at any rate) have a different culture that mildly demonises alcohol consumption. Having dinner (with booze) on a week day with an ex-partner, her family and friends it was mentioned by said friends that they would never admit to people that they were drinking on a week day for fear of being thought of as problem drinkers.

Price and supply isn't a real issue; all alcohol over 3.6% can only be sold through the sate controlled offies but the prices didn't seem any higher than offies here. Although they never did any special offers. It doesn't strangle supply either as they have, by law, to offer every type of alcohol which is legally available including all the imported stuff. If you want a particular wine and your local one doesn't have it then they have to get it for you. Also, beer, cider, etc 3.6% or less can be bought in normal shops in any event.

Bars, pubs, etc are ridiculously expensive. It isn't particularly pricey to get hammered at home though.

[AJL308]

Drive Blind said:

I don’t think the minimum pricing will do anything to reduce the consumption of the older hardened drinkers. As mentioned by others, something else will suffer due to price increase on their drink addiction. I’ve got an old school friend who is an alcoholic. I’ve known him to sit in his flat with no power because he needed the money for drink. Heat and light versus alcohol, alcohol comes first.

What I hope this legislation does do is discourage the younger teenagers from starting. The 13-14 year olds planning on buying drink will be looking at the frosty jack type product that this legislation is directly aimed at.

If the older drinkers need to suffer to help prevent the next generation from becoming alcoholics then I think it’s a price we’ll have to pay.

The majority of my jobs have been in manufacturing factories. Drink is a major part of most of these peoples lives.
“What you got planned this weekend?”
“Dunno, but I’m getting pished”
That’s a conversation I hear almost every week.

When I was younger you were still allowed to drink in public places. Every Saturday and Sunday morning the public park was littered with bottles and cans. The council bylaws preventing this were brought in, in the mid 90’s.

People probably said the similar things about that change.

We have a very real problem in Scotland with alcohol. Any attempt to change that for the better has to be welcomed.

Just my thoughts, I often use PH for having a laugh and a joke but I see the negative side of our relationship with alcohol all the time. DB, 43, Scottish

It won't though because criminals will sell them illegally imported or stolen Frosty Jack in a completely uncontrolled manner. I watched it happen with tobacco 20 years ago. The same will happen with booze. Nicola Sturgeon is simply too thick to realise. Or she just doesn't give a fk.

[AJL308]

vsonix said:

If this was Germany you'd have got €0.25 back for each bottle! Ka-ching!

Surely not though. The alcoholic would have got it and used it to subsidise his next purchase?

[AJL308]

Moonhawk said:

hairyben said:

People buying the cheap plonk most affected probably aren't the kind to plan and organise themselves though, or have funds for volume purchase etc

No - but all it takes is for some enterprising soul to set up a mobile offie, driving round council estates flogging cheap booze from the back of a van.

Stick a quid 'surcharge' on each bottle - jobs a goodun.

Precisely what happened with tobacco when the EU borders came down. The country was flooded with cheap, illegal baccy imported and sold by thugs to children.

The same will happen in Scotland. Absolutely 100% guaranteed, I'm afraid.

A few days after this comes into force every other shop in Berwick will be a cut-price offie.

[AJL308]

HTP99 said:

Sa Calobra said:

TheJimi said:

Won't make a blind bit of difference, imo.

Just means that those desperate enough for alcohol who are priced out by the changes will be either driven to more desperate measures to get their hands on it, or will revert to some other form of high.

TBH true. For generations it's too late to do anything else. For future ones though at least still all the offers and double the pricing. You've got to start somewhere.

I'm indifferent to this, however there was an "expert" on the radio last week who did say that it would likely be 10-20 years before the full effects of this minimum pricing structure is seen.

He's wrong. The full effect (fk-all) will be seen immediately and will be precisely the same (fk-all) in 20 years time.

[AJL308]

irc said:

Recommended by who. The UK is the only country in the world with that limit. Are the rest all wrong?

"Male drinking guidelines vary enormously around the world, from 52 units a week in Fiji to 35 units in Spain, all the way down to seven units in Guyana. There is no other country in the world that has the same guidelines as the UK."

Moderate alcohol consumption is associated with lower death rates.

"As this graph shows, the risk of death declines substantially at low levels of alcohol consumption and then rises, but it does not reach the level of a teetotaller until the person is consuming somewhere between 40 and 60 grams of alcohol a day, which is to say between 35 and 50 units a week."

https://health.spectator.co.uk/the-great-alcohol-c...

I'm somewhere in lower end of that 35-50 unit a week area probably. Age late 50s, no health issues whatsoever., active jogger, hillwalker, cyclist, (cycled 1900 miles in 6 weeks earlier this year) (while having a couple of beers most nights).

The 50p level doesn't just affect rotgut alcohol. Decent major brands like Grouse, Gordons etc are often on special at £15 a litre. £20 after the new law. Why should responsible drinkers like me and the majority be penalised because some people abuse alcohol? What next? A pork pie tax because some people are fat bds?

I often choose to drink stuff that won't be affected like IPA craft beer and malt whisky but I also drink the likes of Grouse. I'll be stockpiling before May. Thereafter I'll look at internet orders in bulk from England. If that isn't possible I visit relatives in England a few times a year. I'll have a loaded car coming back.

This law will affect moderate drinkers on low incomes, not me. I'm not convinced it will save many lives. Alcoholics will still drink and just spend less on rent, food, childred's clothing, whatever.

It was initiated in the '80's. The scientists tasked with coming up with it later admitted that they simply plucked the figures out of thin air without any scientific basis for them. The government wanted something to use so they gave them something.

The figure is utterly meaningless in any practical sense.

[Moonhawk]

AJL308 said:

Bars, pubs, etc are ridiculously expensive. It isn't particularly pricey to get hammered at home though.

I didn't find Iceland particularly expensive when i worked out there.

£5-6 for a pint is comparable to London prices.....however most bars have 'happy hour' almost every day (there is even an App to tell you where and when) and in those instances you could easily be paying £3 a pint all night.

Norway on the other hand was ridiculous. Went to a normal pub in Tromso and payed around £10-£11 a pint.