How deep is the rabbit hole?
Discussion
Study reveals signs of "Manipulating Social Media to Undermine Democracy" in 18 countries
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/freedo...
https://freedomhouse.org/article/new-report-freedo...
It’s a really good topic, and fascinating to see the insight. Some of the time mapping (showing whole farms of Twitter accounts posting during Russia office hours) and levels of trolling are amazing. Worth following Cadwallr and the Byline folks to see the research they’ve been putting into this for the last six months.
Posting before thread gets derailed on the matter of 52/48
Posting before thread gets derailed on the matter of 52/48
It's actually quite fascinating.
Personally I don't really use social media, and like to think I can spot many fake stories. I'd like to think that only the more subtle ones would have a chance of influencing opinion, but it would seem the opposite is true!
Why do so many people believe what they read? Confirmation bias??
Personally I don't really use social media, and like to think I can spot many fake stories. I'd like to think that only the more subtle ones would have a chance of influencing opinion, but it would seem the opposite is true!
Why do so many people believe what they read? Confirmation bias??
Previous said:
It's actually quite fascinating.
Personally I don't really use social media, and like to think I can spot many fake stories. I'd like to think that only the more subtle ones would have a chance of influencing opinion, but it would seem the opposite is true!
Why do so many people believe what they read? Confirmation bias??
I think so. Lots of people look for things that tell them how right they are. And even if some of those things are later proved to be incorrect it still makes them feel righter.Personally I don't really use social media, and like to think I can spot many fake stories. I'd like to think that only the more subtle ones would have a chance of influencing opinion, but it would seem the opposite is true!
Why do so many people believe what they read? Confirmation bias??
Breadvan72 said:
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Agree; it’s fascinating.
Yet there will still be people who think that the Brexit vote wasn’t influenced in any way by divisive social media campaigns initiated by dodgy non-UK actors.
They will never be convinced otherwise regardless of any evidence presented.
Yet there will still be people who think that the Brexit vote wasn’t influenced in any way by divisive social media campaigns initiated by dodgy non-UK actors.
They will never be convinced otherwise regardless of any evidence presented.
Edited by PorkInsider on Friday 17th November 20:59
PorkInsider said:
Agree; it’s fascinating.
Yet there will still be people who think that the Brexit vote wasn’t influenced in any way by divisive social media campaigns initiated by dodgy non-UK actors.
They will never be convinced otherwise regardless of any evidence presented.
Yes otherwise it would have been an even bigger leave vote , Yet there will still be people who think that the Brexit vote wasn’t influenced in any way by divisive social media campaigns initiated by dodgy non-UK actors.
They will never be convinced otherwise regardless of any evidence presented.
Edited by PorkInsider on Friday 17th November 20:59
surprising people took notice of Obama and the other usual suspects..
when you consider the length of time people have wanted out of the EU..
Interesting read, but now I wonder whether those articles are to be believed 
Refreshingly, the articles remain politically impartial, and to that extent more credible. I'd be less likely to believe in social media manipulation were it said that it was used by either the left or the right.
Regarding brexit, there was an awful lot of absolute tosh floated around on social media by both the remain and leave camp.
Earlier today in the question time thread I posted a link to a huffpost article, regarding a bloke on QT last night who is currently being doxxed by antifa.
It was only during the Charlie Gard furore that I personally recognised quite how weaponised social media has become; the way factually incorrect stuff was thrown about to the point it was used to justify attacks on a childrens hospital for gods sake shows the effect it can have.
Refreshingly, the articles remain politically impartial, and to that extent more credible. I'd be less likely to believe in social media manipulation were it said that it was used by either the left or the right.
Regarding brexit, there was an awful lot of absolute tosh floated around on social media by both the remain and leave camp.
Earlier today in the question time thread I posted a link to a huffpost article, regarding a bloke on QT last night who is currently being doxxed by antifa.
It was only during the Charlie Gard furore that I personally recognised quite how weaponised social media has become; the way factually incorrect stuff was thrown about to the point it was used to justify attacks on a childrens hospital for gods sake shows the effect it can have.
PorkInsider said:
Agree; it’s fascinating.
Yet there will still be people who think that the Brexit vote wasn’t influenced in any way by divisive social media campaigns initiated by dodgy non-UK actors.
They will never be convinced otherwise regardless of any evidence presented.
But the eu isn't an easy sell is it, if a whole team of spin doctors/ beurocrats can't convince people more than fake news then shame on them. People see immigrants and Greece, and maybe not much more. Talking working class here. Clegg was once asked what the benefits of eu membership are, he mumbled something about patents, the normal easy answer is 'the ability to travel and work abroad' . That might not be much use to a brickie from Bolton. We get the politicians we deserve. Yet there will still be people who think that the Brexit vote wasn’t influenced in any way by divisive social media campaigns initiated by dodgy non-UK actors.
They will never be convinced otherwise regardless of any evidence presented.
Edited by PorkInsider on Friday 17th November 20:59
I work in IT, specifically with teams that build very large scale websites, a bank, gaming(betting), a supermarket. There are a few privacy holdouts but they are few and far between. Everybody is leaking information online every day and it is being used to manipulate you. This happens commercially with advertising, it is inevitable that this will be used politically. It is important that more people understand how this happens.
You openly tell them your interests every time you type something into a search engine.
All the big internet brands Google, Facebook, Twitter provide tool kits that are used to develop most websites, these track everybody across the sites you visit. There are intermediates like Amazon and Cloudflare that provide much of the infrastructure, that can do the same. We are each a number (technically called unique hash) with a bunch of data attached. This page for example, uses Google Analytics, most commercial sites do. You are not a customer, you are ultimately a sales lead.
They see every site address, every page, the time, where you came from (source IP address), subject of the page, each time we visit a web page with Analytics we leak a little more information about ourselves.
In a short time we are linked to family, friends and colleagues, sometimes by location, sometimes using the same internet connection. At some point you leaked your email and other personal details like name, DOB, address, details of companies you have accounts with.
That only scratches the surface, the reality is orders of magnitude more insidious, it is largely hidden from the public consciousness and hideously complex.
The net result is you are targeted with highly focused marketing information, this happens commercially now, it should be no surprise to see this used politically. We will need to accept that is how it will be and arm ourselves with the knowledge to see past it.
Leavers for example like HP sauce, it is their favourite brand. That link itself is meaningless, except to reveal the level of detail they have about people. They can target just about anything and we need to be wise to it.
You openly tell them your interests every time you type something into a search engine.
All the big internet brands Google, Facebook, Twitter provide tool kits that are used to develop most websites, these track everybody across the sites you visit. There are intermediates like Amazon and Cloudflare that provide much of the infrastructure, that can do the same. We are each a number (technically called unique hash) with a bunch of data attached. This page for example, uses Google Analytics, most commercial sites do. You are not a customer, you are ultimately a sales lead.
They see every site address, every page, the time, where you came from (source IP address), subject of the page, each time we visit a web page with Analytics we leak a little more information about ourselves.
In a short time we are linked to family, friends and colleagues, sometimes by location, sometimes using the same internet connection. At some point you leaked your email and other personal details like name, DOB, address, details of companies you have accounts with.
That only scratches the surface, the reality is orders of magnitude more insidious, it is largely hidden from the public consciousness and hideously complex.
The net result is you are targeted with highly focused marketing information, this happens commercially now, it should be no surprise to see this used politically. We will need to accept that is how it will be and arm ourselves with the knowledge to see past it.
Leavers for example like HP sauce, it is their favourite brand. That link itself is meaningless, except to reveal the level of detail they have about people. They can target just about anything and we need to be wise to it.
paul.deitch said:
Yes but I use adblockers and never see the ads, well most of them. So do you think that adblockers are effective or are they just making me feel good?
Mostly feel good. Adblockers stop adverts being shown. They do not stop the tracking, there are other plugins and approaches that can limit that, none will be entirely effective if you are online. Do you have them installed on every communications device you own? Including your smartphone! Do all your family, all your friends, do the same. No, members of the public will always be playing catchup.That is why I put the focus on being wise to how it can be used.
The solution is not technical, it is social.
That leaking of data is a field of study in computer science, it is called information entropy. In lay terms, the more complex a communications system becomes the more information leaks out of it, information wants to be free, a meme so true, it has become a bit cliché.
There is an upside, information entropy also works in progressive ways with increasing whistle blowing leaks and demands for increasing transparency.
The truth will out in the end, my grandfather used to say many decades ago.
4x4Tyke said:
That leaking of data is a field of study in computer science, it is called information entropy. In lay terms, the more complex a communications system becomes the more information leaks out of it, information wants to be free, a meme so true, it has become a bit cliché.
There is an upside, information entropy also works in progressive ways with increasing whistle blowing leaks and demands for increasing transparency.
The truth will out in the end, my grandfather used to say many decades ago.
The truth may well out in the end. But will we recognise it.?There is an upside, information entropy also works in progressive ways with increasing whistle blowing leaks and demands for increasing transparency.
The truth will out in the end, my grandfather used to say many decades ago.
4x4Tyke said:
I work in IT, specifically with teams that build very large scale websites, a bank, gaming(betting), a supermarket. There are a few privacy holdouts but they are few and far between. Everybody is leaking information online every day and it is being used to manipulate you. This happens commercially with advertising, it is inevitable that this will be used politically. It is important that more people understand how this happens.
You openly tell them your interests every time you type something into a search engine.
All the big internet brands Google, Facebook, Twitter provide tool kits that are used to develop most websites, these track everybody across the sites you visit. There are intermediates like Amazon and Cloudflare that provide much of the infrastructure, that can do the same. We are each a number (technically called unique hash) with a bunch of data attached. This page for example, uses Google Analytics, most commercial sites do. You are not a customer, you are ultimately a sales lead.
They see every site address, every page, the time, where you came from (source IP address), subject of the page, each time we visit a web page with Analytics we leak a little more information about ourselves.
In a short time we are linked to family, friends and colleagues, sometimes by location, sometimes using the same internet connection. At some point you leaked your email and other personal details like name, DOB, address, details of companies you have accounts with.
That only scratches the surface, the reality is orders of magnitude more insidious, it is largely hidden from the public consciousness and hideously complex.
The net result is you are targeted with highly focused marketing information, this happens commercially now, it should be no surprise to see this used politically. We will need to accept that is how it will be and arm ourselves with the knowledge to see past it.
Leavers for example like HP sauce, it is their favourite brand. That link itself is meaningless, except to reveal the level of detail they have about people. They can target just about anything and we need to be wise to it.
Oh the horror. You openly tell them your interests every time you type something into a search engine.
All the big internet brands Google, Facebook, Twitter provide tool kits that are used to develop most websites, these track everybody across the sites you visit. There are intermediates like Amazon and Cloudflare that provide much of the infrastructure, that can do the same. We are each a number (technically called unique hash) with a bunch of data attached. This page for example, uses Google Analytics, most commercial sites do. You are not a customer, you are ultimately a sales lead.
They see every site address, every page, the time, where you came from (source IP address), subject of the page, each time we visit a web page with Analytics we leak a little more information about ourselves.
In a short time we are linked to family, friends and colleagues, sometimes by location, sometimes using the same internet connection. At some point you leaked your email and other personal details like name, DOB, address, details of companies you have accounts with.
That only scratches the surface, the reality is orders of magnitude more insidious, it is largely hidden from the public consciousness and hideously complex.
The net result is you are targeted with highly focused marketing information, this happens commercially now, it should be no surprise to see this used politically. We will need to accept that is how it will be and arm ourselves with the knowledge to see past it.
Leavers for example like HP sauce, it is their favourite brand. That link itself is meaningless, except to reveal the level of detail they have about people. They can target just about anything and we need to be wise to it.
jurbie said:
Russian elections coming up soon so I hope we're going to target them in the same way? I suspect it will be a futile gesture as the result will already be decided but surely better than wringing our hands and whining at how beastly they've been to us.
Its always happened. The odd thing is that americans really believe Russia could spend ***just*** $46k and swing the vote of the election. And $54k after the election. Just $100k in total. Slightly more then a fully loaded Cadillac.
Comapre the $48k with the estimated amount Clinton and Trump spent on the election: $1.4Bn and $957m respectively. Do you really believe tha Russias £48k of spend on advertising made any difference at all, nevermind significant difference, nevermind vote-changing difference??
And to what end?? Why would Russia favoue trump over Clinton? And if they did, why wouldnt you spend more???
Just $48k. The same price as a mid spec cadillac. And the senate committee are looking into it. Its madness....
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