Carrilion in trouble

[Alpinestars]

cossy400 said:

Being abit grass is green to something of this scale.

the ones that are owed big money like that is just a suck it up, or will they see any portion of it?

1.6 and 2 million are not pocket change to be losing after all.

In liquidations, there is a set order of payment. Unsecured creditors (which these will be), are paid after paying off a whole series of other creditors. There won't be much money for unsecured creditors in this one. However, where the OR still needs the services of creditors, they may negotiate better payment of pre liquidation debts.

Edited by Alpinestars on Tuesday 16th January 18:04

[sanguinary]

Many of the larger creditors will have insurance in place, so they may not lose out completely.

We'll lose our excess of a few thousand, but should see the thick end of the rest of the debt.

[cossy400]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess it's just await and see how it all pans out now then.

I'd not want be in some peoples shoes when the st starts flying.

[Digga]

I wonder whether, finally, examples are going to be made?

[MDMetal]

The news today that the governments support for smaller business will last 2 days, what does that mean what was the point of the 48 hours?

[sanguinary]

Digga said:

I wonder whether, finally, examples are going to be made?

Maybe one or two scapegoats, but certainly not the top of the organisation, nor the root cause.

[Digga]

sanguinary said:

Digga said:

I wonder whether, finally, examples are going to be made?

Maybe one or two scapegoats, but certainly not the top of the organisation, nor the root cause.

As I've said earlier, huge numbers of directors form various (screwed-up) bits of the empire will have jumped ship within the last 12 to 18 months. The causes are manifold.

In less controversial news, this amused me yesterday:

NewsThump said:

UK construction industry in crisis after government mistakenly bails out Marillion

https://newsthump.com/2018/01/15/uk-construction-industry-in-crisis-after-government-mistakenly-bails-out-marillion/

[crankedup]

Concerns raised regarding who will be /won’t be paid. The SME subbing under Carillion are stuffed, who is going to pay them, not the Government. All of the people working for these businesses are stuffed. Only those employed for critical public service tasks and maintenance on a daily basis may be ‘fortunate’ to receive and continue to receive thier wages.

Hope that the shower that were the Board and CEO(s) are held to account if it is found that they have in some way been negligent.

[chippy17]

I run the UK arm of a German company, we are an SME here in UK, but a bigger overall company in Germany and globally. What I find interesting is the culture of credit in the UK. When I started I was of UK culture, credit for everything, 30 Days EOM or more etc. The German attitude/culture is pro forma for as many customers as possible, we deal with supply to global hotel chains such as Marriott and they will not even give them credit, their attitude is simple 'we are not a bank'.

[BoRED S2upid]

Digga said:

I wonder whether, finally, examples are going to be made?

I doubt it very much just like the various G4S scandals haven’t affected them getting government contracts.

And as for the CEO getting a £600k bonus when the organisation is in debt to the tune of a billion! Wow.

[Lotobear]

Brilliant, Latham Report all over again, 24 years on.

..'lessons will be learned' (not)

[crankedup]

^^^^^^^^
Government is in a very different place now, they could get away with the previous scandals as public opinion had not been swayed into moving away from privatisation of public services.
This latest and greatest fall out and it’s yet to a ascertained overall losses throughout businesses could be the tilt moment. Public opinion will not be on the side of Carillion and suggest businesses such as that should be offered another chance under the current T&Cs so to speak

[Lotobear]

agreed, and Carillion deserve it and the Directors behaviour requires a thorough examination.

But the point I was making is that Latham recognised exactly the culture and practices at the centre of this 24 years ago and legislation was put in place to prevent it.

It didn't work, not sure why

[Digga]

Lotobear said:

It didn't work, not sure why

Too big to fail, too big to be governed etc. etc.

Too many firms happy to recruit management with train wreck CVs.

[aeropilot]

Digga said:

Too many firms happy to recruit management with train wreck CVs.

^This.

Also, far too many people in these big contractors that actually don't have any basic understanding of how things are actually built.

Also, too much diversification into 'non-job' areas, which seems to generate ever more job roles that appear to be no more than 'tick box' roles from people that sit on their arses all day doing nothing but re-distribute emails, the content of which they have very little understanding of.

I've worked in teams attached to most of the 'big contractors' other than Carillion (thankfully) and its shocking the level of technical understanding a lot of these management people have.
Aah.....but the modern way is they don't have to know, they just need to manage......but time and again, their total lack of basic understanding of the technical tasks at hand means they are always making managing it wrongly.
I wouldn't trust most of them to manage their way out of a wet paper bag.....

[Willy Nilly]

How do people manage to get into positions of responsibility and end up running businesses like this with seemingly no ability to do so?

[Lotobear]

...by having a previous career in accountancy

[Digga]

Willy Nilly said:

How do people manage to get into positions of responsibility and end up running businesses like this with seemingly no ability to do so?

The short answer; mates.

[aeropilot]

Lotobear said:

...by having a previous career in accountancy

Or an MBA in something or other, but usually unrelated to the industry they are working in.

The trouble is with margins so tiny compared with 30-40 years ago, there's no money invested by all these firms in the internal in-house training schemes that the Big 6 contracting firms used to run back when I started in the industry back in 1980. They pulled the plug on those, and all their internal technical departments by the mid 1990's. Most of those firms aren't even in existence now, or have been swallowed up and re-named as part of the new breed of mega firms, like Carillion, or other foreign owned firms.

[Lotobear]

I worked for Mowlem for 5 years when they were an excellent firm with a great reputation, such a shame they were sucked up by this outfit.

I guess I can kiss my pension rights goodbye now