How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 2)

[The Dangerous Elk]

ATG said:

Not wanting to make travel more difficult yet voting for something that can only have that consequence. Leave logic at its finest.

Funny that I can travel the world with ease

I see remainers are all in a lather this morning, must be the prospect of White Death from Russia and the worry of more a few more snowflakes arriving.
(Fascist snowflakes from Russia no less !)

[don'tbesilly]

Ghibli said:

don'tbesilly said:

I’m far from gutted,unlike you I didn’t end up the loser that you are.

Next!

I would rather my life than yours any day.

You come across as one of the most unhappy people on this forum.

Have a nice day.

Oh dear, bit precious today are you?

I’m just great thanks Fella, why you think I’d be unhappy in comparison to you & your clearly blissful existence is a mystery, hey ho.

[mx5nut]

The Dangerous Elk said:

ATG said:

Not wanting to make travel more difficult yet voting for something that can only have that consequence. Leave logic at its finest.

Funny that I can travel the world with ease

No you can't. You've just got used to the expense and red tape.

[andymadmak]

mx5nut said:

No you can't. You've just got used to the expense and red tape.

Yes, yes you can. Really. Mind you it depends on what you call red tape. If one is the sort of person who is challenged by the prospect of filling in a small form whilst on an airliner, which includes such taxing questions as, Name, passport number, address where you're going to be staying, date of birth and sex (try not to answer "yes please" to the last one) then there really is not much hope.

[The Dangerous Elk]

andymadmak said:

Yes, yes you can. Really. Mind you it depends on what you call red tape. If one is the sort of person who is challenged by the prospect of filling in a small form whilst on an airliner, which includes such taxing questions as, Name, passport number, address where you're going to be staying, date of birth and sex (try not to answer "yes please" to the last one) then there really is not much hope.

Yep that is the problem, you need to remember to take a pen ! The life of the traveller is so hard

[paul789]

The Dangerous Elk said:

andymadmak said:

Yes, yes you can. Really. Mind you it depends on what you call red tape. If one is the sort of person who is challenged by the prospect of filling in a small form whilst on an airliner, which includes such taxing questions as, Name, passport number, address where you're going to be staying, date of birth and sex (try not to answer "yes please" to the last one) then there really is not much hope.

Yep that is the problem, you need to remember to take a pen ! The life of the traveller is so hard

Wait, what - you turn right?

[mx5nut]

Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market the Good Friday Agreement.





We'll be doing really well in negotiations just as soon as we decide what we want between ourselves, I'm sure...

[The Dangerous Elk]

Only communist governments (like John Mcdonnell wants) and right wing dictatorships have "All Agree on" governments/politicians.

[Mrr T]

davepoth said:

richie99 said:

I admire DPs optimism but the U.K. Government is not ‘almost ready with an IT system’.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/getting-ready-f...

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/450426393/HMRC-...

These two are important. The first one is CDS - the replacement for the current customs system CHIEF. It goes live in August, and the full cutover is happening a bit ahead of schedule by the looks of it.

The second one is a discussion of the blockchain border concept. Well worth a read if you have five minutes.

They aren't quite as st as you think.

Let’s look at this in detail.

CDS will be a good system but it’s designed to deal with freight that arrives in port in a container (it also deals with air freight) and is unloaded into a bonded area. The CDS system speeds the movement out of bonded area to the customer.

This is very different to goods arriving in the UK on lorries, often with mixed loads, directly into the UK. The poster suggests in another post HMRC will set up bonded areas near the channel crossings. This might work for the tunnel, although I have not seen anything being built. It does not work in Diver where the foot print of the port is tiny. Someone suggested some while ago the Dover bonded area would be inland. They never explained how you would keep the lorries segregated, since Dover only has 2 major routes in and out. The facts are we are not ready for a customs border even at the channel crossings.

The second link it to a proof of concept of a fully integrated system. So this is a proof of concept, it’s not even been put out to tender, no code has been cut, no infrastructure built. So when will it be delivered? Even if it was signed off today we would be talking at least 2025 for go live and this is a government project so let’s say 2030.

None of these solve the Irish border question.

Also for this to work the poster should remember goods travel both ways no it’s not just the UK which needs to be ready.

[loafer123]

I posted this EU paper before, but you might want to read it this time...

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/...

[Mrr T]

loafer123 said:

I posted this EU paper before, but you might want to read it this time...

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/...

I have read it before and will make the same comments again.

1. It a EU parliament research paper. It is not official policy of the EU.
2. its main shortcoming is that a significant amount of livestock crosses the border, but it makes no mention of BIP.
3. The sections on personal travel are already redundant because the UK has already agreed completely free movement. It seems we are taking back control of our border not just all of them.
4. it’s not clear if the proposed smart border meets the UK and UK government pledge to no border.
5. Even if a smart border is acceptable no one has started building it.

[Tuna]

Mrr T said:

5. Even if a smart border is acceptable no one has started building it.

Stuck record.

I'll say again. The issue here is about which solution can be agreed, not whether or not there are people currently in ditches building walls. Isn't it?

You can argue all you like about whether an implementation has been started, or even can be completed to some arbitrary deadline, but if the EU says "yes, that suits our political goals", then it doesn't matter whether it takes a year to build or five - the negotiations will have solved the 'insolvable' border question.

[Atomic12C]

So is Corbyn's new position on where he wants Labour to stand on Brexit basically for the UK and the EU to agree on a customs union which the EU have said time again that to be in a customs union you basically have to be in the EU? (ie. not leave)

Or is his idea of a customs union a 'special case', which again is something that the EU have said will not happen, due to "have your cake and eat it" excuse?

Or is he simply producing something that is aimed at sounding different to the government, basically to oppose their Brexit progress?

Any of the above just shows how dismantled and delusioned Labour currently are.

With that in mind I guess we will see the TV media shoot his proposals down just like they do with the government's?

[wc98]

Ghibli said:

Nope, I voted to remain as we are.

nope, you didn't. you voted for continued membership of the eu. with that comes the evolution of the eu,just as unpredictable a future as leaving. imo of course.

[The Dangerous Elk]

Atomic12C said:

With that in mind I guess we will see the TV media shoot his proposals down just like they do with the government's?

No they will not, their hate of the Conservatives is too strong and their love of the Communists is too deep and ingrained.

[wc98]

Atomic12C said:

So is Corbyn's new position on where he wants Labour to stand on Brexit basically for the UK and the EU to agree on a customs union which the EU have said time again that to be in a customs union you basically have to be in the EU? (ie. not leave)

Or is his idea of a customs union a 'special case', which again is something that the EU have said will not happen, due to "have your cake and eat it" excuse?

Or is he simply producing something that is aimed at sounding different to the government, basically to oppose their Brexit progress?

Any of the above just shows how dismantled and delusioned Labour currently are.

With that in mind I guess we will see the TV media shoot his proposals down just like they do with the government's?

i think you hit the nail on the head with number three. as long as he sounds different to the government he thinks he will be right.

[edh]

Atomic12C said:

So is Corbyn's new position on where he wants Labour to stand on Brexit basically for the UK and the EU to agree on a customs union which the EU have said time again that to be in a customs union you basically have to be in the EU? (ie. not leave)

Or is his idea of a customs union a 'special case', which again is something that the EU have said will not happen, due to "have your cake and eat it" excuse?

Or is he simply producing something that is aimed at sounding different to the government, basically to oppose their Brexit progress?

Any of the above just shows how dismantled and delusioned Labour currently are.

With that in mind I guess we will see the TV media shoot his proposals down just like they do with the government's?

You can be in both CU & SM or just one and be outside the EU. Turkey, Norway, Switzerland for example.

[Sway]

True. Amusingly, the one that is in a CU has long queues at the border, and the one that isn't has virtually none...

[edh]

Sway said:

True. Amusingly, the one that is in a CU has long queues at the border, and the one that isn't has virtually none...

Non tariff barriers are the big issue I guess, not tariffs?

I still think we will end up in both via EEA/EFTA & out of the EU.

[Sway]

Non tariff barriers are a thing, but not anywhere near the extent often suggested. They're reducing all the time.

Especially when countries like France applied them on certain goods even when in the club, to no censure...