The Irish border

Author
Discussion

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
desolate said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Maybe laugh

It may show how desperate Ireland are to get this sorted though. I fear they know deep down that there isn't a solution.
I really liked the idea of keeping the North either in the EU or with a commitment to regulatory equivalence or some such.

I think that would have been a massive boost to their economy whilst allowing a more clean cut brexit elsewhere.

I am sure there are plenty of reasons for it not to work but thought it was worthy of exploration.
I think the main reason for it can be traced back to May's doomed election.

The DUP absolutely won't have it, and May absolutely needs the DUP.

What a cock-up that election really was.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
I think the main reason for it can be traced back to May's doomed election.

The DUP absolutely won't have it, and May absolutely needs the DUP.

What a cock-up that election really was.
Truly the worst campaign I can ever recall.

Kinnock at Sheffield was bad but that was a one off event - the tories were that bad every day for weeks.

slow_poke

1,855 posts

233 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
slow_poke said:
Nicely put from a Little Englander perspective.

Ireland's fighting its own corner, and so far is doing a good job of it. Ireland didn't ask for Brexit, wanted no part of it and is being slated for not rolling over like the whipped dog certain elements seemingly expect it to do they can Brexit. UK demands it's sovernity but expects Ireland to surrender it's?
How exactly are we expecting Ireland to surrender it's sovereignty?
Those comments from Brexiters saying Ireland should Irexit in order to facilitate Brexiters?

JagLover

42,268 posts

234 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
Is the ROI leader deluded / stupid or rattled to threaten to ban UK aircraft from ROI skies?
I think it is comments like that that show the antagonistic approach by the Irish to this process. They seem to be getting frustrated that their plan to effectively slice NI off from the rest of the UK hasn't been agreed.

The Good Friday agreement is used to justify all of this, but doesn't state that NI and Ireland need to have exactly the same regulations, because of course they don't at present in many areas.

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Did you read your link?

Passports needed and checks made at the border.

How is that remotely similar to Ireland/NI?
It is a non-EU country with a land border with "special" arrangements with the EU. Free movement of people (no Visa required) and only basic checks. So a good place to start from rather than having to negotiate all of the processes at once.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Jinx said:
It is a non-EU country with a land border with "special" arrangements with the EU. Free movement of people (no Visa required) and only basic checks. So a good place to start from rather than having to negotiate all of the processes at once.
Given May demands no border infrastructure where do you propose these checks take place?

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Given May demands no border infrastructure where do you propose these checks take place?
That would be May's problem- but I would suggest on the EU side.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Jinx said:
That would be May's problem- but I would suggest on the EU side.
So your Andorra model doesn't work, and never did.

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
So your Andorra model doesn't work, and never did.
It was the starting point and proved the EU does special arrangements with non-EU countries. The NI situation is a unique situation and as such to expect an off the shelf solution is nonsensical. A "soft" border at the ports and access points on the Republic side (well at all major Irish ports) where simple checks on final destination of goods are made complete with the pre-existing passport checks would cover the issue without any additional infrastructure between NI and Ireland.

Ireland is an Island and as such already has the infrastructure where needed. Simple declarations either in paper form or electronically to denote final destination of goods (either EU or NI/UK) at these egress points would make the need for a hard border non-existent.

slow_poke

1,855 posts

233 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Jinx said:
It was the starting point and proved the EU does special arrangements with non-EU countries. The NI situation is a unique situation and as such to expect an off the shelf solution is nonsensical. A "soft" border at the ports and access points on the Republic side (well at all major Irish ports) where simple checks on final destination of goods are made complete with the pre-existing passport checks would cover the issue without any additional infrastructure between NI and Ireland.

Ireland is an Island and as such already has the infrastructure where needed. Simple declarations either in paper form or electronically to denote final destination of goods (either EU or NI/UK) at these egress points would make the need for a hard border non-existent.
So you want Ireland to do your border checks for you?

Way to take back control.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
slow_poke said:
So you want Ireland to do your border checks for you?

Way to take back control.
They do now, and have done for a long time. Ever since the CTA was agreed, well before the EEC or EU existed.

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
s2art said:
slow_poke said:
So you want Ireland to do your border checks for you?

Way to take back control.
They do now, and have done for a long time. Ever since the CTA was agreed, well before the EEC or EU existed.
As above. It is only a problem if someone decides to make it a problem (and with the current Taoiseach it may be - might have to remind him of the bank bail-out on the quiet).

Wobbegong

15,077 posts

168 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
Is the ROI leader deluded / stupid or rattled to threaten to ban UK aircraft from ROI skies?


rofl

majordad

3,600 posts

196 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
The bail out is being repaid, as it is in other EU countries. The UK has been bailed out before, The 1976 IMF Crisis was a financial crisis in the United Kingdom in 1976 which forced James Callaghan's Labour Party government to borrow $3.9 billion from the International Monetary Fund the largest loan ever to have been requested from the IMF at that time.

Regarding Airspace, it's not only Irish Airspace, its all of the rest of Europe you will be banned from.

The UK needs to wake up and realise that a hard Brexit will make you all much less well off, and of course it won't do us any good either.

psi310398

9,037 posts

202 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
majordad said:
The bail out is being repaid, as it is in other EU countries. The UK has been bailed out before, The 1976 IMF Crisis was a financial crisis in the United Kingdom in 1976 which forced James Callaghan's Labour Party government to borrow $3.9 billion from the International Monetary Fund the largest loan ever to have been requested from the IMF at that time.

Regarding Airspace, it's not only Irish Airspace, its all of the rest of Europe you will be banned from.

The UK needs to wake up and realise that a hard Brexit will make you all much less well off, and of course it won't do us any good either.
It will be interesting to see how Lufthansa and KLM will get to New York then...or Aer Lingus to Brussels and Frankfurt..

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Wobbegong said:
Ayahuasca said:
Is the ROI leader deluded / stupid or rattled to threaten to ban UK aircraft from ROI skies?


rofl
That’s not national boundaries or national airspace it’s just air traffic control areas split up conveniently for marking out which ATC areas control them.

If the uk airlines weren’t allowed to overfly EU countries it would be much much worse for the uk than the EU, it’s fairly easy to fly around the uk to The Atlantic or Caribbean etc but the UK would be cut off with massive detours to get anywhere. If there isn’t an agreement most UK airlines will likely be forced to relocate their registration to the EU.

Not that any of this is going to happen anyway.

The CAA will regain control and passengers won’t get their flight delay compo and aircrews will likely work to more restrictive UK regulations.

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
El stovey said:
Wobbegong said:
Ayahuasca said:
Is the ROI leader deluded / stupid or rattled to threaten to ban UK aircraft from ROI skies?


rofl
That’s not national boundaries or national airspace it’s just air traffic control areas split up conveniently for marking out which ATC areas control them.

If the uk airlines weren’t allowed to overfly EU countries it would be much much worse for the uk than the EU, it’s fairly easy to fly around the uk to The Atlantic or Caribbean etc but the UK would be cut off with massive detours to get anywhere. If there isn’t an agreement most UK airlines will likely be forced to relocate their registration to the EU.

Not that any of this is going to happen anyway.

The CAA will regain control and passengers won’t get their flight delay compo and aircrews will likely work to more restrictive UK regulations.
Easyjet have already done so, I spoke to the pilot on a flight back from Naples only last week.
It was a welcome diversion whilst the plane sat on the runway after missing it's slot, and having to wait for another flight plan,

Wobbegong

15,077 posts

168 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
El stovey said:
Wobbegong said:
Ayahuasca said:
Is the ROI leader deluded / stupid or rattled to threaten to ban UK aircraft from ROI skies?


rofl
That’s not national boundaries or national airspace it’s just air traffic control areas split up conveniently for marking out which ATC areas control them.

If the uk airlines weren’t allowed to overfly EU countries it would be much much worse for the uk than the EU, it’s fairly easy to fly around the uk to The Atlantic or Caribbean etc but the UK would be cut off with massive detours to get anywhere. If there isn’t an agreement most UK airlines will likely be forced to relocate their registration to the EU.

Not that any of this is going to happen anyway.

The CAA will regain control and passengers won’t get their flight delay compo and aircrews will likely work to more restrictive UK regulations.
Would be even worse for Ireland.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Wobbegong said:
Would be even worse for Ireland.
Irish free state keep forgetting how much food they sell into the U.K. and how we gave them massive loans to bridge the financial crisis over and above what the EU did.

A weird way to treat your friends. Oh well plenty of other places we can buy produce from if we wanted to and turn off the Black gold too. So so easy - especially as we sell hardly anything to them (buyer power)

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
don'tbesilly said:
Easyjet have already done so, I spoke to the pilot on a flight back from Naples only last week.
It was a welcome diversion whilst the plane sat on the runway after missing it's slot, and having to wait for another flight plan,
I hope you told the pilot that EasyJet fell for project fear.