Chris Frome potentially in serious trouble
Discussion
gooner1 said:
Many elite atheletes suffer from asthma symptoms, apparently
high intensity exercise can induce them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42264758
OpulentBob said:
What a surprise. Road cyclist in failed drugs test shocker. Regardless of what the drug was, he is a professional, full time cyclist with a massive back-up team of fitness and medical professionals behind him. I don't for one moment believe that his team didn't know he would fail a test and thought they could use his profile to get him off.
Competition cyclists will invariably fail drugs tests, yet people make up excuses, find weasel words to let them off.
It took ages for people to condemn Armstrong. The furore around Wiggins (who I am still convinced will spend time banned for doping), now Froome, all the others. Just look at the cases from 2012 alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases...
Filthy sport, bent to the core.
Why do all these people who would otherwise class themselves as "decent" - or even worse, think that they are superior to everyone else (see cries of "fatty!" on the cycling vs driving threads) - worship at the alter of drugs cheats?
I'm not sure anyone worships pro cyclists... Competition cyclists will invariably fail drugs tests, yet people make up excuses, find weasel words to let them off.
It took ages for people to condemn Armstrong. The furore around Wiggins (who I am still convinced will spend time banned for doping), now Froome, all the others. Just look at the cases from 2012 alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases...
Filthy sport, bent to the core.
Why do all these people who would otherwise class themselves as "decent" - or even worse, think that they are superior to everyone else (see cries of "fatty!" on the cycling vs driving threads) - worship at the alter of drugs cheats?
On your wider point, yes cycling has a problem. However, look at the rates of testing and analysis cycling does and compare to other sports - quite simply it's rife in every single sport, and many simply pay lip service to controlling it. With today's capabilities available to the dopers, the only way of coming close to understanding the likelihood of foul play is to create a statistical 'biopassport' over a period of time for every elite athlete. To my knowledge, no other sport puts much effort into achieving this.
You mention three individuals who have had success, and considered their actions all equal. One is proven, one alleged, one suspected. Yet if you had any clue about the people you're writing about, you'd perhaps have a different view.
Armstrong was a decent one day rider, suddenly turned into a multiple Tour winner. Another had has a pretty mediocre career until a 'diagnosis' where suddenly they became a multiple Tour winner. The third has been one of the most impressive riders since his teenage years, and only won a single Tour that had a route that suited him to a tee...
Greg66 said:
Is the Guardian’s story anything more than “Froome had a TUE for salbutamol”, and if so what is it?
I didn't think they needed a TUE for salbutamol or any other asthma drug, just that there are limits applied to it's use. The beeb were quoting test results of 2000 vs a limit of 1000, which sounds too much over the limit for an accident, unless of course he had a dose too close to the end of the stage and it hadn't worked out of his system.It's hard to imagine a team like SKY who analyse and bring science into everything they do not having tested Froome for how quickly a drug will disperse in his body. The team doctor will know about limits and the dosage from inhalers so either he got his sums badly wrong or the timing was wrong.
No doubt SKY will now embark on a test program with Froome, inhalers and exercise to prove that a legal dose can give double the legal limit in his specific case. That's going to be worth watching.....
I know a guy who is a very keen road cyclist and he now has pretty bad asthma, he reckons it's been caused by traffic fumes and due to the fact that most of his cycling is in urban environments.
I have been cycling for over 20 years now but only on very quiet country roads well away from towns and traffic, no lung or breathing problems as yet thankfully.
I have been cycling for over 20 years now but only on very quiet country roads well away from towns and traffic, no lung or breathing problems as yet thankfully.
WestyCarl said:
Biker 1 said:
Professional cycling is a sick joke. No idea why anybody would follow this 'sport'. Rotten to the core.
I think that probably applies to most sport, even the OlympicsMaybe the only way is to legalise all doping & get some form of new super-human species.....
Biker 1 said:
Sadly I think you're right. Its pretty pathetic, but cheating with drugs seems to be human nature.
Maybe the only way is to legalise all doping & get some form of new super-human species.....
Maybe 2 events in the Olympics Maybe the only way is to legalise all doping & get some form of new super-human species.....
; "natural" where absolutely nothing can be taken, not even a paracetomal
"juiced" where anything goes, no drug testing (athletes must be over 25)
WestyCarl said:
Biker 1 said:
Sadly I think you're right. Its pretty pathetic, but cheating with drugs seems to be human nature.
Maybe the only way is to legalise all doping & get some form of new super-human species.....
Maybe 2 events in the Olympics Maybe the only way is to legalise all doping & get some form of new super-human species.....
; "natural" where absolutely nothing can be taken, not even a paracetomal
"juiced" where anything goes, no drug testing (athletes must be over 25)
WestyCarl said:
Biker 1 said:
Professional cycling is a sick joke. No idea why anybody would follow this 'sport'. Rotten to the core.
I think that probably applies to most sport, even the OlympicsFittster said:
Why does a sport have to be drug free for people to follow it? What's more entertaining WWE wrestling or that strange thing that happens in the Olympics?
Fish slappinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lefP0_ZM-Lw
Sk00p said:
From the UCI:
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-chri...
Interesting the * bit at the bottom
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.”
Looks like a controlled study to follow then...
That's just a cut and paste from WADA's site about the use of beta 2 agonists - the doses it's referring to are:-http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-chri...
Interesting the * bit at the bottom
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is presumed not to be an intended therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.”
Looks like a controlled study to follow then...
• Inhaled salbutamol: maximum 1600mcg over 24 hours, not to exceed 800mcg every 12 hours;
• Inhaled formoterol: maximum delivered dose of 54mcg over 24 hours;
• Inhaled salmeterol: maximum 200mcg over 24 hours
Bear in mind that an average puff (of salbutamol) would be either 100 or 200mcg for an adult.
I think what they are basically saying is if you pee over those levels - you've got to prove to us how on earth it's possible (via an inhaler at those maximum doses) to produce those results by replicating them in a controlled study, because if you can't we'll assume you've been injecting.
b2hbm said:
I didn't think they needed a TUE for salbutamol or any other asthma drug, just that there are limits applied to it's use. The beeb were quoting test results of 2000 vs a limit of 1000, which sounds too much over the limit for an accident, unless of course he had a dose too close to the end of the stage and it hadn't worked out of his system.
It's hard to imagine a team like SKY who analyse and bring science into everything they do not having tested Froome for how quickly a drug will disperse in his body. The team doctor will know about limits and the dosage from inhalers so either he got his sums badly wrong or the timing was wrong.
No doubt SKY will now embark on a test program with Froome, inhalers and exercise to prove that a legal dose can give double the legal limit in his specific case. That's going to be worth watching.....
<digs>It's hard to imagine a team like SKY who analyse and bring science into everything they do not having tested Froome for how quickly a drug will disperse in his body. The team doctor will know about limits and the dosage from inhalers so either he got his sums badly wrong or the timing was wrong.
No doubt SKY will now embark on a test program with Froome, inhalers and exercise to prove that a legal dose can give double the legal limit in his specific case. That's going to be worth watching.....
This is from the UCI's site (http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeutic-use-exemptions/):
"Inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24 hours) and inhaled salmeterol (maximum delivered dose of 200 micrograms over 24 hours) are not prohibited and therefore do not require a TUE.
For inhaled salbutamol, you must obtain a TUE if you need to take more than 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 54 μg per day of formoterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 200 μg per day of salmeterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you take salmeterol, salbutamol and/or formoterol by any other routes of administration "
So by the look of it he needs a TUE if he has to inhale more than 1600 micrograms per 24hrs or is he uses a different delivery method. Not sure how that fits into the UCI's press release that's upthread.
This is from WADA's site:
"
2. What is the difference between an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) and an Anti-Doping Rules Violation (ADRV)?
Up
An Adverse Analytical Finding indicates the presence of prohibited substances or methods in a particular sample. Adverse Analytical Findings should not be confused with adjudicated or sanctioned Anti-Doping Rules Violations (ADRV) for several reasons.
First, these figures may contain findings that underwent the Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) approval process. In addition, some Adverse Analytical Findings may correspond to multiple measurements performed on the same athlete, such as in cases of longitudinal studies in testosterone (i.e., tracking the testosterone level of one athlete over a period of time)."
pavarotti1980 said:
gooner1 said:
Many elite atheletes suffer from asthma symptoms, apparently
high intensity exercise can induce them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42264758
Biker 1 said:
WestyCarl said:
Biker 1 said:
Professional cycling is a sick joke. No idea why anybody would follow this 'sport'. Rotten to the core.
I think that probably applies to most sport, even the OlympicsMaybe the only way is to legalise all doping & get some form of new super-human species.....
FFS people ram drugs down their throat just to get though a workday let alone athletes ( dentists/doctors/law/directors/add here etc etc ) .
Uncle John said:
I've always though how good it would be to watch a Tour or the Olympics where everyone was allowed to dope.
Would be quite the spectacle - 100 meters in 7 seconds - Alpe D'Huez in 25 minutes.....
I guess when the cyclists were all allegedly doping, it was a sort of level playing field as they were all at it.Would be quite the spectacle - 100 meters in 7 seconds - Alpe D'Huez in 25 minutes.....
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