Chris Frome potentially in serious trouble
Discussion
Uncle John said:
I've always though how good it would be to watch a Tour or the Olympics where everyone was allowed to dope.
Would be quite the spectacle - 100 meters in 7 seconds - Alpe D'Huez in 25 minutes.....
Whilst I completely understand, and to an extent, agree with your idea - there's already a statue on Alpe D'Huez showing the repercussions... Would be quite the spectacle - 100 meters in 7 seconds - Alpe D'Huez in 25 minutes.....
superkartracer said:
Every sport I've been into ( and become good at ) people were using drugs , running/rowing/cycling/shooting/motor racing ... only the deluded and people never taking part would think otherwise , tis rife sadly .
FFS people ram drugs down their throat just to get though a workday let alone athletes ( dentists/doctors/law/directors/add here etc etc ) .
Seems to be 'just not cricket'.FFS people ram drugs down their throat just to get though a workday let alone athletes ( dentists/doctors/law/directors/add here etc etc ) .
Surely it only takes a cursory glance at the sport to realise that it must be rife with performance enhancing tactics?
Take the Tour de France for instance. It simply is not possible to produce that effort for that period day after day after day without assistance.
That has been my view ever since I first looked at (and took up) cycling as a kid
Despite protests from the sport to the contrary and claims of 'cleaning up' my view has not changed at all
Take the Tour de France for instance. It simply is not possible to produce that effort for that period day after day after day without assistance.
That has been my view ever since I first looked at (and took up) cycling as a kid
Despite protests from the sport to the contrary and claims of 'cleaning up' my view has not changed at all
KTF said:
Uncle John said:
I've always though how good it would be to watch a Tour or the Olympics where everyone was allowed to dope.
Would be quite the spectacle - 100 meters in 7 seconds - Alpe D'Huez in 25 minutes.....
I guess when the cyclists were all allegedly doping, it was a sort of level playing field as they were all at it.Would be quite the spectacle - 100 meters in 7 seconds - Alpe D'Huez in 25 minutes.....
These guys and girls are all genetic freaks. With endurance events, just looking at hematocrit, this can show in two ways - elevated levels from the norm, or increased efficiency of the individual cells.
Armstrong had exceptionally efficient hematocrit. This appears to have been assisted by the treatment he received for cancer. As EPO was at the time undetectable, the only thing the authorities could do was put a 'safety limit', where if you were over 50% you were barred from racing until it had reduced.
Armstrong could therefore increase his level to 49%, and this would have a greater improvement than someone with naturally high levels topping up a little.
Hence the need for biopassports, things like traceable markers in blood bags, and refined testing (including in my opinion, retrospective sampling as testing improves).
It's a staggeringly complex issue.
KTF said:
I guess when the cyclists were all allegedly doping, it was a sort of level playing field as they were all at it.
Apparently not. According to a book read (can't remember what it was now) the top riders could afford to buy the best drugs, had the best doctors who knew what the optimum dosing regimes were and how late before competition they could leave it before stopping, and had access to the best masking agents. mcelliott said:
Sway said:
Whilst I completely understand, and to an extent, agree with your idea - there's already a statue on Alpe D'Huez showing the repercussions...
Eh?Then add in certain countries for whom thier citizens do not control their own bodies - informed consent is impossible to achieve in a 'doping allowed' regime.
Sway said:
Memorial to Tommy Simpson - keeled over on the climb... Amphetamine use.
Then add in certain countries for whom thier citizens do not control their own bodies - informed consent is impossible to achieve in a 'doping allowed' regime.
Minor point but mount ventoux not alpe d'huez.Then add in certain countries for whom thier citizens do not control their own bodies - informed consent is impossible to achieve in a 'doping allowed' regime.
Athletes always have a choice, even the Russian ones. Compete doped or quit.
Sway said:
Whilst I completely understand, and to an extent, agree with your idea - there's already a statue on Alpe D'Huez showing the repercussions...
Ventoux. Though Alpe d'Huez has signs on each hairpin bearing the names of celebrated Tour riders. Including Armstrong and Marco Pantani. Brain fart, apologies... Ventoux, not AD'H.
Soviet athletes may have had a 'choice', but in reality? As for China, etc.? I thought we already knew they are essentially forcing gymnasts to breed to refine the genetics, then the babies are taken from the mothers then put through gruelling training from a tiny age...
Soviet athletes may have had a 'choice', but in reality? As for China, etc.? I thought we already knew they are essentially forcing gymnasts to breed to refine the genetics, then the babies are taken from the mothers then put through gruelling training from a tiny age...
Greg66 said:
Sway said:
Whilst I completely understand, and to an extent, agree with your idea - there's already a statue on Alpe D'Huez showing the repercussions...
Ventoux. Though Alpe d'Huez has signs on each hairpin bearing the names of celebrated Tour riders. Including Armstrong and Marco Pantani. Greg66 said:
<digs>
This is from the UCI's site (http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeutic-use-exemptions/):
"Inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24 hours) and inhaled salmeterol (maximum delivered dose of 200 micrograms over 24 hours) are not prohibited and therefore do not require a TUE.
For inhaled salbutamol, you must obtain a TUE if you need to take more than 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 54 ?g per day of formoterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 200 ?g per day of salmeterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you take salmeterol, salbutamol and/or formoterol by any other routes of administration "
So by the look of it he needs a TUE if he has to inhale more than 1600 micrograms per 24hrs or is he uses a different delivery method. Not sure how that fits into the UCI's press release that's upthread.
This is from WADA's site:
"
2. What is the difference between an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) and an Anti-Doping Rules Violation (ADRV)?
Up
An Adverse Analytical Finding indicates the presence of prohibited substances or methods in a particular sample. Adverse Analytical Findings should not be confused with adjudicated or sanctioned Anti-Doping Rules Violations (ADRV) for several reasons.
First, these figures may contain findings that underwent the Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) approval process. In addition, some Adverse Analytical Findings may correspond to multiple measurements performed on the same athlete, such as in cases of longitudinal studies in testosterone (i.e., tracking the testosterone level of one athlete over a period of time)."
the thing is the first time he uses his inhaler at a much higher level than he has been used to he will require a tue . if he has previously only had to use it a couple of times a day and been well under the threshold for a tue it would be possible to be caught out. i can remember having to use my inhaler far in excess of normal use after landing in hong kong ,whether due to the humidity or something else i have no idea. it wasn't a pleasant experience though.This is from the UCI's site (http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeutic-use-exemptions/):
"Inhaled salbutamol (maximum 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose), inhaled formoterol (maximum delivered dose 54 micrograms over 24 hours) and inhaled salmeterol (maximum delivered dose of 200 micrograms over 24 hours) are not prohibited and therefore do not require a TUE.
For inhaled salbutamol, you must obtain a TUE if you need to take more than 1600 micrograms over 24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms over 12 hours starting from any dose.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 54 ?g per day of formoterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you need to inhale more than 200 ?g per day of salmeterol.
You must obtain a TUE if you take salmeterol, salbutamol and/or formoterol by any other routes of administration "
So by the look of it he needs a TUE if he has to inhale more than 1600 micrograms per 24hrs or is he uses a different delivery method. Not sure how that fits into the UCI's press release that's upthread.
This is from WADA's site:
"
2. What is the difference between an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) and an Anti-Doping Rules Violation (ADRV)?
Up
An Adverse Analytical Finding indicates the presence of prohibited substances or methods in a particular sample. Adverse Analytical Findings should not be confused with adjudicated or sanctioned Anti-Doping Rules Violations (ADRV) for several reasons.
First, these figures may contain findings that underwent the Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) approval process. In addition, some Adverse Analytical Findings may correspond to multiple measurements performed on the same athlete, such as in cases of longitudinal studies in testosterone (i.e., tracking the testosterone level of one athlete over a period of time)."
not making excuses for him but i can see how it could happen, for the formoterol at least . each dose i take contains 6 micrograms and i take 3 doses at a time when required. use is not consistent either, i can go weeks without needing it and that day in hong kong i must have used it once an hour for around 6 to 8 hours.
Sway said:
Let's be fair, the French (and Spanish/Italians/etc.) simply don't see doping as a problem. Look at Virenque. Utter tosser, appalling sportsman, confirmed doper, loved across France...
Only when it is one of their own.All of which chemically enhanced nonsense confirms why the only true cycling sport of heroes is downhill mountain biking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU
OpulentBob said:
What a surprise. Road cyclist in failed drugs test shocker. Regardless of what the drug was, he is a professional, full time cyclist with a massive back-up team of fitness and medical professionals behind him. I don't for one moment believe that his team didn't know he would fail a test and thought they could use his profile to get him off.
Competition cyclists will invariably fail drugs tests, yet people make up excuses, find weasel words to let them off.
It took ages for people to condemn Armstrong. The furore around Wiggins (who I am still convinced will spend time banned for doping), now Froome, all the others. Just look at the cases from 2012 alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases...
Filthy sport, bent to the core.
Why do all these people who would otherwise class themselves as "decent" - or even worse, think that they are superior to everyone else (see cries of "fatty!" on the cycling vs driving threads) - worship at the alter of drugs cheats?
Bloody hell. Competition cyclists will invariably fail drugs tests, yet people make up excuses, find weasel words to let them off.
It took ages for people to condemn Armstrong. The furore around Wiggins (who I am still convinced will spend time banned for doping), now Froome, all the others. Just look at the cases from 2012 alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases...
Filthy sport, bent to the core.
Why do all these people who would otherwise class themselves as "decent" - or even worse, think that they are superior to everyone else (see cries of "fatty!" on the cycling vs driving threads) - worship at the alter of drugs cheats?
Not what's larger, the amount of dopers in professional sports, or the size of the chip on your shoulder.r11co said:
Sway said:
Let's be fair, the French (and Spanish/Italians/etc.) simply don't see doping as a problem. Look at Virenque. Utter tosser, appalling sportsman, confirmed doper, loved across France...
Only when it is one of their own.
Digga said:
All of which chemically enhanced nonsense confirms why the only true cycling sport of heroes is downhill mountain biking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU
That was a great run. Shame it cut off Rob Warners line at the end about the size of Danny's testes
budgie smuggler said:
Digga said:
All of which chemically enhanced nonsense confirms why the only true cycling sport of heroes is downhill mountain biking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilqCro2MVU
That was a great run. Shame it cut off Rob Warners line at the end about the size of Danny's testes
I did notice it had been edited. Rob Warner's commentary is sadly lacking in the new, sanitised for corporate circulation Red Bull coverage, good though it is.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff