Peter Kay Tour Cancelled

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Discussion

RicksAlfas

13,355 posts

243 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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SydneyBridge said:
has anyone actually received the physical tickets yet though??
they normally get sent out nearer the show.
Yes, I'm sure ours came within a week or so of booking them.
They were for Christmas presents!

alangla

4,723 posts

180 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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B17NNS said:
alangla said:
I stumbled on this in my local library a couple of years ago - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ticket-Masters-Josh-Baron... - well worth a read. Explains, in layman's terms, how things got to the state they're in now. From memory, I think it covers the rise of the bots, but it was written in 2011, so a few years out of date.
Cheers, I'll take a look. Another problem now is that some of the artists are in on it too. Fees to play often exceeding total value of ticket sales. Demanding huge blocks of tickets for themselves as part of their riders which they then sell on the secondary market. All the while leaving the face value low so they don't look like they're extorting their fans.

All completely avoidable with modern tech. Face printed on the ticket... Present credit card used along with ticket... Lots of ways to stop it. Nobody seems to want to.
The book explains a lot of these shenanigans, especially some of the deals where the venue offers the artist percentages of the booking fees & in some cases a chunk of the bar takings for the night, also deals where the ticket agent (it concentrates on Ticketmaster & Live Nation, but it's the same across the board) offer chunks of their fees to the venue to be the exclusive ticketing partner.
On your last point, the last time I saw U2, their standing tickets (processed by Ticketmaster) were done to avoid reselling. You got a very basic payment receipt emailed on purchase and were only allowed to take 1 guest with you. When you turned up at the venue, you had to present the payment card used to buy the ticket (you could get them to update the card number if it was re-issued in the interim) and a form of photo ID - they retrieved your booking and issued you with a wristband plus one for your guest if you'd booked a +1 and that then got you into the standing section. No actual ticket was ever issued either electronically or on paper.

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Pretty much every year the government announce a working party to

A) outlaw touting/excessive price resellers

B) outlaw admin/booking fees.

Neither ever happen.

HTP99

22,444 posts

139 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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The problem with cracking down on touts or buying and re-selling for a mark up, is the solutions can be costly and also time consuming.

Imagine rocking up to a Wembley Stadium and everyone's ticket has to be cross referenced and checked to the post code of the purchaser, or a payment card number, it would massively slow down getting in, queue's would become even bigger than normal, it would be a massive ballache.

I think my wife went to a Wembley gig (Green day I think), the postcode of the purchaser was on each ticket (4 max I think), so the purchaser had to be there with each ticket holder plus id, in the end as everything was getting backed up, people were just being let in without being id'd, to speed entry up.

OzzyR1

5,701 posts

231 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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ALawson said:
Are there any upfront costs for booking venues which are non refundable so would he have insurance for that?
No Idea on the scale of upfront costs but imagine it s no-brainer that he/his management company would have insurance for any unforeseen circumstances which required cancellation of shows.

Whatever the actual reason is aside, its several months till it was due to start - he could have been involved in a car accident or had any number of problems or health issues between now and the start of the tour which might prevent him performing.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

99 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Surely, though, the issue is with these secondary ticket sites which purport to be "tickets that become available because genuine fans have a legitimate reason why they cannot attend" but then actually "buy all the tickets and immediately whack the price up for the same promoter"

As I mentioned earlier, I've bought many gig tickets over the years, but on a couple of occasions, have been unable to then attend the gig for proper reasons. In those cases, I was able to get onto eBay and sell my tickets for the price I had paid for them, get to the post office, and sell them on.

OK, I wasn't meant to do that according to the promoter's "rules" but they didn't lose any money, and I didn't make any money, I just avoided losing out.

Why the SeatWave and GetMeIn type places are allowed to immediately charge significantly higher - and one of them is owned by eBay I am sure - is the issue, no? Official reselling sites ought not to make ludicrous amounts because it really highlights they are stealing the tickets away from fans who were trying to get the tickets at the first price.

Fan can't go - cancels ticket - venue has another ticket available for people to go into a pool

Glastonbury offer "returned" tickets every year in a second round of sales, not at an increased price, but of course you have a smaller chance of getting a ticket but it provides a genuine means to attempt to get another ticket.

Challo

10,043 posts

154 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Shakermaker said:
Surely, though, the issue is with these secondary ticket sites which purport to be "tickets that become available because genuine fans have a legitimate reason why they cannot attend" but then actually "buy all the tickets and immediately whack the price up for the same promoter"

As I mentioned earlier, I've bought many gig tickets over the years, but on a couple of occasions, have been unable to then attend the gig for proper reasons. In those cases, I was able to get onto eBay and sell my tickets for the price I had paid for them, get to the post office, and sell them on.

OK, I wasn't meant to do that according to the promoter's "rules" but they didn't lose any money, and I didn't make any money, I just avoided losing out.

Why the SeatWave and GetMeIn type places are allowed to immediately charge significantly higher - and one of them is owned by eBay I am sure - is the issue, no? Official reselling sites ought not to make ludicrous amounts because it really highlights they are stealing the tickets away from fans who were trying to get the tickets at the first price.

Fan can't go - cancels ticket - venue has another ticket available for people to go into a pool

Glastonbury offer "returned" tickets every year in a second round of sales, not at an increased price, but of course you have a smaller chance of getting a ticket but it provides a genuine means to attempt to get another ticket.
There is obviously a market for people to resell tickets when they cant go. The problem is when tickets sell out, only to be on the resell site 5mins later at double the cost.

How you differentiate between the two must be a challenge.

SydneyBridge

8,500 posts

157 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Glastonbury eliminated re-selling with the measures they put in place
and eliminated gatecrashers with a bloody big wall...

sure other promoters could do something if they wanted to

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

99 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Challo said:
There is obviously a market for people to resell tickets when they cant go. The problem is when tickets sell out, only to be on the resell site 5mins later at double the cost.

How you differentiate between the two must be a challenge.
My solution I suppose would be something along these lines:

If you can't go, call this number or visit this website, enter your details, and cancel your tickets. Cancelled tickets will be put up for sale in a re-sale on X date. You will be refunded the full Face Value of the ticket fee, and postage fees, but lose your booking fee"

If you cancel your tickets less than X weeks before hand, we will offer you a refund of... 75% of the face value and these tickets will be available for sale at N date from the website or from our authorised seller"

Sure, you might lose your booking fee, maybe the postage fee if the tickets have been sent out (and you then have to return the old tickets) but the tickets can be resold to people at Face Value with the booking fee etc on top.

Aggregated across every single gig, show and event that the promoters have, they can still make money out of this, but it would to me, appear more transparent and more honest because nobody is paying more than face value from an official seller/promoter. The promtoer still gets their booking fee, sometimes twice, for the work involved in administering returns and refunds.

Consider how many other companies successfully offer refunds/returns - sometimes even free of charge - then the ticket industry is arguably in a better position to do this.

alangla

4,723 posts

180 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Shakermaker said:
Why the SeatWave and GetMeIn type places are allowed to immediately charge significantly higher - and one of them is owned by eBay I am sure - is the issue, no? Official reselling sites ought not to make ludicrous amounts because it really highlights they are stealing the tickets away from fans who were trying to get the tickets at the first price.
Worse - GetMeIn & Seatwave are part of Ticketmaster, StubHub is part of eBay. Viagogo appears to be private.
With GetMeIn & Seatwave, the original ticket agent is also the secondary ticket agent. Was there not an issue a while ago where a big act released a large block of tickets direct to a secondary agent without ever offering them via a primary? You're basically being scalped by the same agent who's selling the main block of tickets.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

99 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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alangla said:
Shakermaker said:
Why the SeatWave and GetMeIn type places are allowed to immediately charge significantly higher - and one of them is owned by eBay I am sure - is the issue, no? Official reselling sites ought not to make ludicrous amounts because it really highlights they are stealing the tickets away from fans who were trying to get the tickets at the first price.
Worse - GetMeIn & Seatwave are part of Ticketmaster, StubHub is part of eBay. Viagogo appears to be private.
With GetMeIn & Seatwave, the original ticket agent is also the secondary ticket agent. Was there not an issue a while ago where a big act released a large block of tickets direct to a secondary agent without ever offering them via a primary? You're basically being scalped by the same agent who's selling the main block of tickets.
Yes, as discussed further back in this thread, which is why many of us have issue with it.

These days, if I miss out on tickets the first time around, the only place I would get secondary tickets would be from a friend selling it via facebook, in which case I know the person, and wouldn't be getting mugged off!

B17NNS

18,506 posts

246 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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alangla said:
You're basically being scalped by the same agent who's selling the main block of tickets.
yes They won't stop it because they are getting a few bites at the cherry.

FiF

43,965 posts

250 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Viagogo was the site where I saw 60 pound Peter Kay tickets on sale for 300 pounds plus fees exactly 8 minutes after the sales opened at 10am.

abzmike

8,243 posts

105 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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The government had a chance to crack down on this recently and declined to act.

Promoters and ticket agencies could fix the issue if they wanted - I am afraid artists who keep saying they have their fan's at heart are also complicit in this. I've been to shows where my ID was quickly checked on entry, no issues. Now that bags are typically checked on entering a venue, so there is plenty time and staff to do this. For another show if a change needed to me made to the name on the ticket, contact the agent or go onto the website update and download a fresh ticket. There are no technical or organisational barriers, and costs are minimal, and easily covered by their exorbitant service fees.

There is no way to totally eliminate secondary reselling of tickets, but the mass gouging currently permitted has got way out of control, and those I've mentioned above could fix it if they wished - For some reason they don't.. I wonder what that could be...

Mezzanine

9,149 posts

218 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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LaurasOtherHalf said:
CoolHands said:
So what's he got then? Come on.

I bet all the promotors and that are right fked off, you're talking huge money for 100 date tour.
Hopefully most people involved care a little more about someones well being than money. Could be any number of things, perhaps a relative has been given a certain amount of time left and PK thinks the next two years could be better spent other than working?
Any promoter working at these numbers would hopefully have insurance to cover such eventuality?


anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Mezzanine said:
Any promoter working at these numbers would hopefully have insurance to cover such eventuality?
yes All tours are covered by insurance, assuming the cover is adequate!

DeejRC

5,712 posts

81 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Why would any high profile artist/entertainer care?

I never understand why fans/enthusiasts seem to think they are important or anybody cares about them.

Boo boo, you can't get tickets. By the dvd or watch it on YouTube.

2fast748

1,091 posts

194 months

Friday 15th December 2017
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I think it was Iron Maidens last tour were they made a determined effort to make sure no tickets got sold on and I think they succeeded, their manager is a self confessed tight Yorkshireman!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-37438...

Trent Reznor also wrote an interesting piece on touting basically saying artists know people will pay over the odds to see them so it's a quandary for artists how to deal with the problem.

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

99 months

Friday 15th December 2017
quotequote all
DeejRC said:
Why would any high profile artist/entertainer care?

I never understand why fans/enthusiasts seem to think they are important or anybody cares about them.

Boo boo, you can't get tickets. By the dvd or watch it on YouTube.
Some people do have a conscience even when they have got rich and famous you know, and recognise the value of their loyal fans for supporting their career.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Friday 15th December 2017
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Shakermaker said:
DeejRC said:
Why would any high profile artist/entertainer care?

I never understand why fans/enthusiasts seem to think they are important or anybody cares about them.

Boo boo, you can't get tickets. By the dvd or watch it on YouTube.
Some people do have a conscience even when they have got rich and famous you know, and recognise the value of their loyal fans for supporting their career.
+1

Be nice to the people you pass on your way up, you may meet them again........