Another prove your innocence case
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Do the stats show percentage of allegations involving strangers to those known to the complainant?
I don't know.And what difference does that make?
.....
edit
the report is here - https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documen...
it suggests 10% allegations involve strangers and 90% are referred to as 'acquaintance rape cases'
Edited by rover 623gsi on Thursday 12th September 22:13
rover 623gsi said:
saaby93 said:
Do the stats show percentage of allegations involving strangers to those known to the complainant?
I don't know.And what difference does that make?
It may not work too well with strangers
rover 623gsi said:
Obviously, it is terrible to be accused of something you haven't done. And any woman found guilty of making a false accusation should be appropriately punished.
But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
.
Without knowing the details of each case it is hard to know what is going on. Anecdotally, as pointed out on this thread before, many cases are reported as rape which are far more grey with intoxication of both parties. Unless you are going to reverse the presumption of guilt just because something is reported as rape does not mean a jury of 12 would consider it to be so. But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
.
The CPS tried to change their guidelines to ensure more cases went to court and then ended up with an embarrassing series of cases collapsing.
rover 623gsi said:
reconciliation??? Are you bonkers??? Are you actually suggesting that rapists and their victims can be reconciliated???
Germaine Greer had the idea that there should be an offence below rape when there has been no violence. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germ...
I think she goes too far in what she is saying but certainly for the very grey cases, where both are equally intoxicated, a couple of hundred hours community service might indeed be a more appropriate punishment.
rover 623gsi said:
reconciliation??? Are you bonkers??? Are you actually suggesting that rapists and their victims can be reconciliated???
What, you don't think they'd be able to kiss and make up?Tbh I agree with everything you've posted, but fundamentally unless there's an independent witness at all sexual encounters, it's always going to be one person's word against anothers. That makes conviction hard unless there's other factors.
Strangely, this reminds me of Blackadder 1 where he consumates his marriage to the Queen of Spain...
I think it's a combination of factors.
Increased reporting, which is a good thing.
An end to the practice of cuffing unpromising allegations, also good.
A lack of resources and expertise to deal with the increase in allegations, not good.
Add all these together and you get the sort of results being reported.
Increased reporting, which is a good thing.
An end to the practice of cuffing unpromising allegations, also good.
A lack of resources and expertise to deal with the increase in allegations, not good.
Add all these together and you get the sort of results being reported.
rover 623gsi said:
Obviously, it is terrible to be accused of something you haven't done. And any woman found guilty of making a false accusation should be appropriately punished.
But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
PH is obsessed with the notion that thousands of women are constantly trying to trap men and set them for up, whereas the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%. There is also a stack load of evidence which suggests that most rapes and sexual assaults don't even get reported. There is still too much focus on the actions of the victims and an assumption that women should have to prove that they actively said 'no' as opposed to men having justify their actions and being able to prove they actively sought or obtained consent.
Given the minuscule chance of obtaining a conviction and knowing what rape victims have to endure doing a trial I would not encourage any woman to go through with pressing charges. What a sad state of affairs.
Well said. I really feel for those falsely accused and anyone that does such a thing is a ****. But my day to day concern is with those being raped rather than those being falsely accused of it. But the reality is that if a man has sex with a woman against her wishes he almost certainly not going to receive any punishment at all.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49669760
PH is obsessed with the notion that thousands of women are constantly trying to trap men and set them for up, whereas the statistics shows that the number of reports of rape that end in a conviction is about 3%. There is also a stack load of evidence which suggests that most rapes and sexual assaults don't even get reported. There is still too much focus on the actions of the victims and an assumption that women should have to prove that they actively said 'no' as opposed to men having justify their actions and being able to prove they actively sought or obtained consent.
Given the minuscule chance of obtaining a conviction and knowing what rape victims have to endure doing a trial I would not encourage any woman to go through with pressing charges. What a sad state of affairs.
Not at all sure on this one. I take the point about clumsy advances but it happened on two separate occasions.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/the-devastat...
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/the-devastat...
JagLover said:
Not at all sure on this one. I take the point about clumsy advances but it happened on two separate occasions.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/the-devastat...
We seem to be in a world of over reaction all round.https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/the-devastat...
Hopefully I'll remember to teach my two boys that touching girls without them asking you to isn't a great idea...
First things first. As a first year undergrad - 17/18? he's not a boy, he's a (young) man. Maybe he's shy, or unused to personal contact and eager to maker friends in a new environment. Maybe the girl got the wrong impression but the points of contact were far from sexual. The girl may also be shy and understandably embarrassed.
It sounds as though it might not be too far from playground hair-tugging but details are presumably withheld for presentation purposes. Even so, the penalty is way beyond reasonable. Who knows how she was questioned?
How times have changed. In 1985 our daughter, then age 13, was stabbed in the rear, in the classroom, by a boy with a compass. I saw the headmaster, lounging and swinging around in his chair, and was told it was an innocent play incident - despite the blood. He soon changed his mind when I pulled him over his desk. We removed our daughter from the school that day and reported the assault on our daughter to police. They took no action! On either of us.
It sounds as though it might not be too far from playground hair-tugging but details are presumably withheld for presentation purposes. Even so, the penalty is way beyond reasonable. Who knows how she was questioned?
How times have changed. In 1985 our daughter, then age 13, was stabbed in the rear, in the classroom, by a boy with a compass. I saw the headmaster, lounging and swinging around in his chair, and was told it was an innocent play incident - despite the blood. He soon changed his mind when I pulled him over his desk. We removed our daughter from the school that day and reported the assault on our daughter to police. They took no action! On either of us.
saaby93 said:
how did this come to court
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
There is nothing in the report which suggests he is definitely innocent and that it is a waste of court time.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
I don't think we can surmise all the ins and outs of the case without knowing all the evidence and background.
saaby93 said:
how did this come to court
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
Because a woman died in unusual circumstances???https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/11/ow...
....
The owner of a chip shop in a Welsh village murdered his wife by throwing a deep fat fryer containing scalding oil over her, a jury has been told.
Geoffrey Bran, 71, allegedly attacked his wife, Mavis Bran, 69, at their business the Chipoteria in Hermon, Carmarthenshire.
She rang a friend and screamed: “Please help me, please. Emergency, emergency, please get here. Geoff has thrown boiling oil over me. Please get here, I need you now. Help.”
She suffered burns to 46% of her body and died six days later, the jury at Swansea crown court heard.
...
saaby93 said:
how did this come to court
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
Because the victim said that he threw the oil over her, seems a pretty horrific way to die.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
There are several reports in the BBC - and other media outlets - about this case
E.g
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50389944
E.g
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50389944
techguyone said:
greygoose said:
Because the victim said that he threw the oil over her, seems a pretty horrific way to die.
Why doesn't the BBC report say what the Gran did? because if that was true wouldn't both be saying the same, it does seem fairly important.rover 623gsi said:
saaby93 said:
how did this come to court
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
Because a woman died in unusual circumstances???https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-50398851
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/11/ow...
....
The owner of a chip shop in a Welsh village murdered his wife by throwing a deep fat fryer containing scalding oil over her, a jury has been told.
Geoffrey Bran, 71, allegedly attacked his wife, Mavis Bran, 69, at their business the Chipoteria in Hermon, Carmarthenshire.
She rang a friend and screamed: “Please help me, please. Emergency, emergency, please get here. Geoff has thrown boiling oil over me. Please get here, I need you now. Help.”
She suffered burns to 46% of her body and died six days later, the jury at Swansea crown court heard.
...
How can they tell one way or the other?
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