The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
Voldemort said:
Ah, the loaded question deflection.
Perhaps, Matt, you could explain why an armed populous is NOT stupid? I'm open to your reasons but I'll need convincing because I didn't see it as a loaded question, just a statement of fact.
Not a swerve - just a tacit recognition that the way the question was posed made it a little cynical. The short and simple answer is insurance. Perhaps, Matt, you could explain why an armed populous is NOT stupid? I'm open to your reasons but I'll need convincing because I didn't see it as a loaded question, just a statement of fact.
Do I live in fear of being gunned-down in the street? No. Do people get gunned-down in the street? Occasionally, yes. Happened last night, in fact.
Do I consider myself to be a whacko armed vigilante, praying for an opportunity to grease some bad guys? Hell no.
Am I likely to be the victim of an armed home invasion? Very doubtful. Do armed home invasions ever happen in Orlando FL? Unfortunately, yes.
If myself and or my wife, by some unlikely quirk of fate or misfortune found our lives being threatened, would I/we prefer to beg and plead for mercy, or have a means to fight back? Does this ever happening your country/state/city? Sadly.... yes.
So, how likely is any of this? The answer is, not very. But it does happen - which is why I have insurance. I don't live in fear, in fact I am extremely content regarding my location and the way we live. But I also like to prepare for the unforeseen, unlikely and even unthinkable.
Some of my work activities and most of my wife's work activities and absolutely EVERY SINGLE ONE of my daughter's work activities make it appropriate to have a last line of defense - just in case. Nothing heroic on my part - just having to be in strangers homes for interviews and assessments. My wife is a very petite visiting nurse and my daughter is a police officer.
I live in Florida. Lots and lots of people have guns in Florida. Open carry is not legal in this state, so it is pretty much impossible to determine who is armed and who isn't. I took these pics this morning.
I have received very extensive and ongoing personalized training from a genuine expert. I know what I'm doing and I am acutely aware of the responsibility that surrounds firearms ownership.
Apologies if I have over-egged this, but the perspective of those living in societies without widespread public firearm ownership often changes a little, when they are transported into an environment with guns everywhere. There are plenty of people in the PH community who would doubtless be tooled-up if they found themselves living here.
If my situation and attitude renders me stupid, in the eyes of some on this thread, sincerely I don't really care. But to reiterate, in my case, at least, the justification is insurance.
Gary C said:
dvs_dave said:
Showboating clowns like this aren’t the problem. It’s the shadowy nut job losers brooding on social media and the ghetto gangbangers where the focus needs to be.
but they feed off each other in a whirlwind of machismo.Dont get me wrong, I used to own a shotgun for shooting dinner and clays and its fun, no denying that, but walking down a high street with a gun ? crazy that you should want too, even crazier that you should need to.
Gun control is a very serious problem that needs much firmer action. But at the same time the USA is not at all like any other country, and part of that is that it also will never have gun control laws or policy in-line with what other so-called civilized countries have. So the glib solutions based on “well, it works here” are simply futile.
But one thing that would be good, would be to temper much of the hyperbole around the discussion.
It seems that anyone with a real world comparative perspective posting an opinion that may temper some of that hyperbole is instantly rubbished/insulted. For some reason no one wants to hear it, instead preferring to just make the echo chamber ever louder and not taking the discussion anywhere useful.
dvs_dave said:
Gary C said:
dvs_dave said:
Showboating clowns like this aren’t the problem. It’s the shadowy nut job losers brooding on social media and the ghetto gangbangers where the focus needs to be.
but they feed off each other in a whirlwind of machismo.Dont get me wrong, I used to own a shotgun for shooting dinner and clays and its fun, no denying that, but walking down a high street with a gun ? crazy that you should want too, even crazier that you should need to.
Gun control is a very serious problem that needs much firmer action. But at the same time the USA is not at all like any other country, and part of that is that it also will never have gun control laws or policy in-line with what other so-called civilized countries have. So the glib solutions based on “well, it works here” are simply futile.
But one thing that would be good, would be to temper much of the hyperbole around the discussion.
It seems that anyone with a real world comparative perspective posting an opinion that may temper some of that hyperbole is instantly rubbished/insulted. For some reason no one wants to hear it, instead preferring to just make the echo chamber ever louder and not taking the discussion anywhere useful.
"being able to walk down a high street with a gun ? crazy that some should want too, even crazier that some think they need to"
Mind you, we cant even shoot a f
king pigeon with an air rifle in our own back garden, !Which is also stupid.
dvs_dave said:
They do, but at the same time to then assume that people are just generally walking down the high street with firearms on show is a deep misrepresentation of reality. Do the laws/loopholes allow it in some states/cities? Yes. Is it a commonplace sight? Absolutely not. In fact the vast majority of people in the vast majority of the country (even the deeply “Red” states) would be shocked to see such carryon and go the other way as it’s behavior that’s firmly in the fringe extremist camp.
I think this is an excellent and overlooked point. Open carry is not legal where I live. Indeed, even accidental disclosure of a firearm can get you in serious bother and brandishing - overt display of a firearm that may cause distress to others, is a felony.
Gweeds said:
I don’t doubt it. It’s a ridiculous stat. Although I’d be interested to see the breakdown of the headline number, particularly as it relates to circumstances and demographics. Although I suspect it will paint an all too familiar picture, and is the primary reason as to why the establishment remains largely unmotivated to do anything about it.dvs_dave said:
Gweeds said:
I don’t doubt it. It’s a ridiculous stat. Although I’d be interested to see the breakdown of the headline number, particularly as it relates to circumstances and demographics. Although I suspect it will paint an all too familiar picture, and is the primary reason as to why the establishment remains largely unmotivated to do anything about it.And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
rscott said:
The speaker's son was sentenced to 10 years for a road rage incident involving a firearm - https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/856268/amp?__twitt...
And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
Indeed. Although what are the stats behind that number? They’re not all due to mass shooting/school shooter type events. Far far from it, although that’s the picture they appear to be painting. And before I get jumped on, I’m not an apologist at all, just interested to get some more granularity as to the circumstances and demographics behind it. That will show where the attention and action should be focused for the biggest impact, beyond the simplistic blanket “because guns” reasoning.And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
I've said it before and I'll keep on banging the drum , Brits should focus more on getting there own country back into shape rather than continually bashing the U.S. from afar . Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK , and I'm fairly certain there is a lot of resentment behind some of the posters on here , not that they'd admit that for one second . Dons headgear for the insults and abuse 
Matt Harper said:
dvs_dave said:
They do, but at the same time to then assume that people are just generally walking down the high street with firearms on show is a deep misrepresentation of reality. Do the laws/loopholes allow it in some states/cities? Yes. Is it a commonplace sight? Absolutely not. In fact the vast majority of people in the vast majority of the country (even the deeply “Red” states) would be shocked to see such carryon and go the other way as it’s behavior that’s firmly in the fringe extremist camp.
I think this is an excellent and overlooked point. Open carry is not legal where I live. Indeed, even accidental disclosure of a firearm can get you in serious bother and brandishing - overt display of a firearm that may cause distress to others, is a felony.Quinnipiac poll:
74% of Texas voters oppose allowing anyone 21 years of age or older to carry handguns without a license or training
Last week, Republican Greg Abbott signed a bill into law allowing Texans to carry unlicensed handguns
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3813
74% of Texas voters oppose allowing anyone 21 years of age or older to carry handguns without a license or training
Last week, Republican Greg Abbott signed a bill into law allowing Texans to carry unlicensed handguns
https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3813
dvs_dave said:
rscott said:
The speaker's son was sentenced to 10 years for a road rage incident involving a firearm - https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/856268/amp?__twitt...
And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
Indeed. Although what are the stats behind that number? They’re not all due to mass shooting/school shooter type events. Far far from it, although that’s the picture they appear to be painting. And before I get jumped on, I’m not an apologist at all, just interested to get some more granularity as to the circumstances and demographics behind it. That will show where the attention and action should be focused for the biggest impact, beyond the simplistic blanket “because guns” reasoning.And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
dvs_dave said:
rscott said:
The speaker's son was sentenced to 10 years for a road rage incident involving a firearm - https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/856268/amp?__twitt...
And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
Indeed. Although what are the stats behind that number? They’re not all due to mass shooting/school shooter type events. Far far from it, although that’s the picture they appear to be painting. And before I get jumped on, I’m not an apologist at all, just interested to get some more granularity as to the circumstances and demographics behind it. That will show where the attention and action should be focused for the biggest impact, beyond the simplistic blanket “because guns” reasoning.And a bit more background of this speaking event - https://www.thelostclass.com/
rscott said:
They don't claim they're only mass/school shooting victims. It's the number of pupils killed by firearms who would have graduated this year, had they still been alive.
No, they don't claim that.But there is the insinuation, especially when the pic is used in a mass shooting conversation.
I guess the missing context is the breakdown about how many are due to suicide, or accidental discharges?
fttm said:
I've said it before and I'll keep on banging the drum , Brits should focus more on getting there own country back into shape rather than continually bashing the U.S. from afar . Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK , and I'm fairly certain there is a lot of resentment behind some of the posters on here , not that they'd admit that for one second . Dons headgear for the insults and abuse
Pros and Cons - we wouldn't want your healthcare, your gun laws, your openly corrupt politicians and the slowness to bring them to account, caused by all the lax money laws around how they can hide donations. As a population you're very gullible, be it Qanon conspiracies, donating money to rich preachers, support for corrupt politicians etcWe aren't as inward and are certainly more open minded towards other people, although there's that underlying base of racism here too. The US is very materialistic, it's all about the money you have, the size of your property, your car, and generally the US is about 50 years behind other developed western countries socially, worse since trump. We aren't as one US citizen on my last visit insisted, dominated with Sharia law and the whole of London is a no go area for the police.
You don't pay people a living wage, so tipping is essential, but FFS that makes a beer in New York £12+. In some places in the US, major cities, the cost of living is out of control.
You have cheaper fuel, big long straight roads and some great v8 cars that suit those roads. Some beautiful countryside, some amazing people and can be technology leaders because you have the money to throw at the problem. You know how to cook meat, oh southern smokehouses... but sometimes finding vegetables can be difficult. Most other countries accept that potatoes (especially fries) does not count as one of your 5 a day.
On my visits I like to visit ranges and shoot weapons I can't in the UK.
Oh and if we're talking about getting the country back into shape, hows your vaccine rollout going? <drops mic>
None of that addresses the fact that gun ownership (legal and illegal) and use is out of control in the US. Start by finding out how big the problem is, register all firearms. Remove the stupid law that anyone can get a gun if the check doesn't come back in three days - you don't get a gun until your security check clears. Tighten purchases of firearms at shows and for goodness sake, agree a fixed set of rules across all 50 states.
Ian Geary said:
rscott said:
They don't claim they're only mass/school shooting victims. It's the number of pupils killed by firearms who would have graduated this year, had they still been alive.
No, they don't claim that.But there is the insinuation, especially when the pic is used in a mass shooting conversation.
I guess the missing context is the breakdown about how many are due to suicide, or accidental discharges?
fttm said:
I've said it before and I'll keep on banging the drum , Brits should focus more on getting there own country back into shape rather than continually bashing the U.S. from afar . Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK , and I'm fairly certain there is a lot of resentment behind some of the posters on here , not that they'd admit that for one second . Dons headgear for the insults and abuse
“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”― George Carlin
As for 'those willing to work', well done. The billionaires have convinced you poor people are the problem.
Gweeds said:
fttm said:
I've said it before and I'll keep on banging the drum , Brits should focus more on getting there own country back into shape rather than continually bashing the U.S. from afar . Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK , and I'm fairly certain there is a lot of resentment behind some of the posters on here , not that they'd admit that for one second . Dons headgear for the insults and abuse
“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”? George Carlin
As for 'those willing to work', well done. The billionaires have convinced you poor people are the problem.
fttm said:
Quality of life in North America for those willing to work knocks spots of the UK . . .
For me, 'quality of life' relates to the amount and 'quality' of time that I spend with my family - outside of work times.
Many of my friends and relations in the US, have between 5 - 10 days vacation time in a year; by way of contrast, I'll have 35 days.
You mention that those in the US who are 'willing to work', have great quality of life - on only one or two weeks of holiday ?
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