The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

Author
Discussion

A Winner Is You

24,942 posts

226 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2021
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One that was averted in San Antonio, gets out of his car and starts randomly shooting, police officer wounds him, suspect kills himself to be the only fatality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ConvenientCop/comments/o5...

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2021
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Matt Harper said:
Lord.Vader said:
I am not anti-US at all, I have spent a lot of time there for both holiday and work, it is a great place with fantastic people (in general), yet the gun situation is out of control.

ETA; I see you are also a grammar Nazi Matt, do you enjoy that as much as guns? What an excellent post, I wrote that at 01:19 after a rather enjoyable night out so yes my grammar wasn’t perfect.
I am neither a "gun-nut", or a grammar nazi - nor am I OK with the carnage that lack of US gun control has created.

However, I don't think that the country is a fking joke either. That is what you wrote and walking it back because you were st-faced doesn't change that.

My only other concern was (and still is) your proclamation that you are a responsible and conscientious gun-owner, but people like me (being American - though previously from the UK) are not. I found that to be somewhat offensive. But consoled myself by excusing you as being a moron.

Hopefully this clarifies things for you.
Hmm, yet you corrected my grammar on the internet, well played.

You aren’t a gun nut, yet if iirc you do carry a side arm with you at all times? iirc you posted a picture of a silver pistol in a side holster? I’m sorry if that wasn’t you but if it was then yes you are a ‘gun-nut’, there is no reason to carry a firearm as a civilian in day to day life.

Nope you misunderstood, the USA is an absolute joke, it’s a disgusting pot of hypocrisy veiled in ‘freedom’ and has an absolute disregard for any sort of social equality, my point around having had a few drinks was with respect to my grammar, not the content.

A) you are not American (though I’m sure you wish you were), b) how many incidents do we have in the UK vs in the US where cretinous gun owners don’t lock up their guns, don’t unload their firearms, kill themselves, their sister / mother brother, or just go on a shooting rampage and contribute to the appx 40000 deaths (in 2019 alone).

Yet I’m the moron, right O, you continue to wave ‘your’ flag and praise the good ol’ USofA and I’ll walk the shop in the lovely sunshine … without a gun.

Edited by Lord.Vader on Tuesday 22 June 16:31

Byker28i

58,866 posts

216 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2021
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The Ninth Circuit has stayed pending appeal the overturning of California's assault weapons ban pending two other cases including the appeal of a ruling striking down CA's ban on large-capacity magazines

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/140715884...

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Tuesday 22nd June 2021
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Ok so we seemed to have veered off the road into the bizarre-ditch now....

Lord.Vader said:
Hmm, yet you corrected my grammar on the internet, well played.
I did not correct your grammar - I questioned what you wrote. You wrote it in a bit of a clumsy way, but I didn't correct it

Lord.Vader said:
aren’t a gun nut, yet if iirc you do carry a side arm with you at all times? iirc you posted a picture of a silver pistol in a side holster? I’m sorry if that wasn’t you but if it was then yes you are a ‘gun-nut’, there is no reason to carry a firearm as a civilian in day to day life.
No sorry, that's incorrect too. I do own a few firearms and I do have a concealed carry permit. I do sometimes venture out of the house armed and there is usually a firearm in my car when I'm in it and due to my wife's profession, whenever she's in it. That, a gun-nut does not make. Like the vast majority of firearms owners, the responsibility is a great one and it is not lost on me either. The minuscule percentage (proportionate to the overall population) who do irresponsible, illegal and intentionally murderous acts with firearms are not representative of the quite huge majority of responsible owners. I don't own any silver pistols.

Lord.Vader said:
you misunderstood, the USA is an absolute joke, it’s a disgusting pot of hypocrisy veiled in ‘freedom’ and has an absolute disregard for any sort of social equality, my point around having had a few drinks was with respect to my grammar, not the content.
At first the US was a fking joke, then it wasn't and now it is again. That's is crazy-talk

Lord.Vader said:
) you are not American (though I’m sure you wish you were), b) how many incidents do we have in the UK vs in the US where cretinous gun owners don’t lock up their guns, don’t unload their firearms, kill themselves, their sister / mother brother, or just go on a shooting rampage and contribute to the appx 40000 deaths (in 2019 alone).
So, this is where you become totally strange. I have lived in the US for 20 years and I became an American citizen 5 years ago. I think that makes me American in the literal sense of the phrase. Frankly, I don't wish I was any nationality. I do get a little irritated with American people who claim to be Irish, Scottish and most frequently Italian, but are in reality American. Consequently, I'm truly baffled as to the point you are attempting to make here.

Additionally and I stand to be corrected if this isn't the case, I have never stated that I am happy, comfortable, ambivalent or resigned about the lack of gun control in this country. Make all the comparisons between the UK and the US in this regard that you care to and you will never hear me challenge them.

What I am challenging is your casual assertion that the US is a fking joke and compared to righteous UK gun owners, their US counterparts (all lumped together by you), are cretinous loonies. You know - the moronic bit.



dvs_dave

8,581 posts

224 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Lord.Vader said:
…I hate the USA…and am the angry sort.
3 posts in, and that’s effectively all you’ve managed to contribute. Sad. Troll. Do one.

dvs_dave

8,581 posts

224 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Byker28i said:
The Ninth Circuit has stayed pending appeal the overturning of California's assault weapons ban pending two other cases including the appeal of a ruling striking down CA's ban on large-capacity magazines

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/140715884...
Good. Although as another commenter mentioned, it’ll probably end up in the Supreme Court where those clowns will strike it down for being “unconstitutional”. Nevermind there being precedent with the 1994-2004 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

Edited by dvs_dave on Wednesday 23 June 03:13

Byker28i

58,866 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Matt Harper said:
What I am challenging is your casual assertion that the US is a fking joke and compared to righteous UK gun owners, their US counterparts (all lumped together by you), are cretinous loonies. You know - the moronic bit.
You have to admit that the default position that everyone has the right have a gun, in the current situation of gun related deaths seems abnormal. That every state having different rules seems strange to anyone not converse with the US. That the US doesn't even know how big the problem is of firearm 'ownership' (and I use that term loosely) and that it's strange that the US now accepts so many gun related deaths a year, accepts that it's normal to frequently teach your children and to practice to barricading school doors, to hide under tables...

Thats not to say people can't have guns, but they need to start severely tightening up on the rules surrounding who can have them/have access to them. The only way that can happen is if the 65-70% of the population who don't own guns put pressure on the politicians, who at the moment have no qualms about doing nothing, because aswe know, money plays a huge part in us politics, and whilst the money flood in from the gun lobbys....

Boom78

1,193 posts

47 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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I’m not sure how accurate the figure is but on the news yesterday it stated that 20 ex US servicemen commit suicide everyday!! I’m not sure how many are at the hands of their firearm but that’s a truly terrible terrible statistic frown

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Byker28i said:
You have to admit that the default position that everyone has the right have a gun, in the current situation of gun related deaths seems abnormal. That every state having different rules seems strange to anyone not converse with the US. That the US doesn't even know how big the problem is of firearm 'ownership' (and I use that term loosely) and that it's strange that the US now accepts so many gun related deaths a year, accepts that it's normal to frequently teach your children and to practice to barricading school doors, to hide under tables...

Thats not to say people can't have guns, but they need to start severely tightening up on the rules surrounding who can have them/have access to them. The only way that can happen is if the 65-70% of the population who don't own guns put pressure on the politicians, who at the moment have no qualms about doing nothing, because aswe know, money plays a huge part in us politics, and whilst the money flood in from the gun lobbys....
I don't disagree with any of this - and I think you will also find that the overwhelming majority of gun-owners in the US would support more robust and more reasonable gun control. However the pro-gun lobby in this country is disproportionately powerful and vocal - and well-resourced. Added to which, Constitutional amendments don't grow on trees. To summarize, I agree with you.

However, the somewhat hysterical rantings of the young fella I'm at odds with are a little less rational. Akin to the equally indefensible American idea that because some British people have abominable dental hygiene - all British people have bad teeth.

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Boom78 said:
I’m not sure how accurate the figure is but on the news yesterday it stated that 20 ex US servicemen commit suicide everyday!! I’m not sure how many are at the hands of their firearm but that’s a truly terrible terrible statistic frown
Agree - a very depressing number, if that is the case. I think you'll find that this sad statistic is not representative of servicemen/women who are on active duty. More logically, they are discharged combat veterans struggling with undiagnosed and/or untreated PTSD. We are supposed to honor our veterans, both serving and discharged - we do a pretty piss-poor job of it.

Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Matt Harper said:
Ok so we seemed to have veered off the road into the bizarre-ditch now....

I do own a few firearms and I do have a concealed carry permit. I do sometimes venture out of the house armed and there is usually a firearm in my car when I'm in it and due to my wife's profession, whenever she's in it.
Do you not see that allowing the civilian populous to carry a gun is stupid ?

I'm sure its easy for an individual to justify the need to carry a gun, but its a circular argument that leads to increasing deaths.

Matt Harper

6,613 posts

200 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
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Gary C said:
Do you not see that allowing the civilian populous to carry a gun is stupid ?

I'm sure its easy for an individual to justify the need to carry a gun, but its a circular argument that leads to increasing deaths.
"A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (such as, a presumption of guilt). ... The fallacy relies on context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not make the question fallacious in itself. - Wikipedia"

Voldemort

6,092 posts

277 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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Matt Harper said:
Gary C said:
Do you not see that allowing the civilian populous to carry a gun is stupid ?

I'm sure its easy for an individual to justify the need to carry a gun, but its a circular argument that leads to increasing deaths.
"A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question that contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (such as, a presumption of guilt). ... The fallacy relies on context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not make the question fallacious in itself. - Wikipedia"
Ah, the loaded question deflection.

Perhaps, Matt, you could explain why an armed populous is NOT stupid? I'm open to your reasons but I'll need convincing because I didn't see it as a loaded question, just a statement of fact.

NDA

21,493 posts

224 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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I cannot answer for Matt, but I suspect if you live in a society where everyone is armed, you'd be stupid not to be armed.

I am one of those old fashioned Brits that is always a bit shocked when I see a policeman with a gun in a holster. It looks and feels very alien to me. The idea of going into a shopping centre in America and seeing people openly carrying guns sounds madness.

But I am not an American. If I was, I'd probably have a gun!

Byker28i

58,866 posts

216 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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NDA said:
I cannot answer for Matt, but I suspect if you live in a society where everyone is armed, you'd be stupid not to be armed.

I am one of those old fashioned Brits that is always a bit shocked when I see a policeman with a gun in a holster. It looks and feels very alien to me. The idea of going into a shopping centre in America and seeing people openly carrying guns sounds madness.

But I am not an American. If I was, I'd probably have a gun!
A good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun argument? When the authorities turns up, how do they know who the bad guy with the gun is?
And what you've just suggested there is what the US do now, an uncontrolled escalation of gun ownership, both legal and illegal.

I mean - open carry of long rifles and semi automatic rifles?
https://everytownresearch.org/report/covid-armed-p...

dvs_dave

8,581 posts

224 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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Byker28i said:
A good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun argument? When the authorities turns up, how do they know who the bad guy with the gun is?
And what you've just suggested there is what the US do now, an uncontrolled escalation of gun ownership, both legal and illegal.

I mean - open carry of long rifles and semi automatic rifles?
https://everytownresearch.org/report/covid-armed-p...
Article says:
“Protests Exploit Open Carry Loophole….. small numbers of…..gun rights extremists……openly display military-style firearms to incite fear, suppress civil discourse, and threaten public safety.”

So the local fringe wannabe “well organized militia” blow hards emboldened into spraying their shorts in public, with a gun in their other hand.

Showboating clowns like this aren’t the problem. It’s the shadowy nut job losers brooding on social media and the ghetto gangbangers where the focus needs to be.



rscott

14,691 posts

190 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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NDA said:
I cannot answer for Matt, but I suspect if you live in a society where everyone is armed, you'd be stupid not to be armed.

I am one of those old fashioned Brits that is always a bit shocked when I see a policeman with a gun in a holster. It looks and feels very alien to me. The idea of going into a shopping centre in America and seeing people openly carrying guns sounds madness.

But I am not an American. If I was, I'd probably have a gun!
I remember my first trip to Atlanta - one of my colleagues out there proudly told me that the Marta (their subway system) was much safer now because there were armed Marta police on most trains.
He couldn't understand when I asked how bad had it been to need armed police on most trains!

Byker28i

58,866 posts

216 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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rscott said:
NDA said:
I cannot answer for Matt, but I suspect if you live in a society where everyone is armed, you'd be stupid not to be armed.

I am one of those old fashioned Brits that is always a bit shocked when I see a policeman with a gun in a holster. It looks and feels very alien to me. The idea of going into a shopping centre in America and seeing people openly carrying guns sounds madness.

But I am not an American. If I was, I'd probably have a gun!
I remember my first trip to Atlanta - one of my colleagues out there proudly told me that the Marta (their subway system) was much safer now because there were armed Marta police on most trains.
He couldn't understand when I asked how bad had it been to need armed police on most trains!
I think the real indicator (and I know I bang on about this) is active shooter drills in schools and regular practices. How many more indications do you need when the children aren't safe? It's unthinkable in a 'developed' country

APontus

1,935 posts

34 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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The US gun crime figures prove two things; arming your citizens doesn't make for a safer society and tough sentences doesn't deter gun crime.

When (if ever) will a US administration have the courage to deal with this in any meaningful way?

Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
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dvs_dave said:
Showboating clowns like this aren’t the problem. It’s the shadowy nut job losers brooding on social media and the ghetto gangbangers where the focus needs to be.
but they feed off each other in a whirlwind of machismo.

Dont get me wrong, I used to own a shotgun for shooting dinner and clays and its fun, no denying that, but walking down a high street with a gun ? crazy that you should want too, even crazier that you should need to.