The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

Author
Discussion

hidetheelephants

24,289 posts

193 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Ian Geary said:
There's a lot of reference to the power of the NRA

But one article I read said they spent $5million in 2021 on campaigns

Surely that's peanuts when it comes to USA politics?

To have Republicans in their pocket must surely cost more than that?

Unless it isn't just about the NRA, and is more ingrained? Tbh gun laws are just another lense through which republicans make themselves look a bunch of cretins.
The NRA 'went through some things' as a result of serial fraud on the part of executive officers buying themselves houses, holidays, wardrobes full of clothes and away days on private jets on the company credit card. In 2016 the NRA spooged $30m on Trump's election alone, from a total of $140m spent on lobbying and electioneering.
MC Bodge said:
captain_cynic said:
Power isn't just in money. Especially political power. The NRA has enormous sway over it's members in encouraging them who to vote for. The "they're coming for your guns" trope is great for encouraging fear amongst the stupid and weak.
It has become one of the pillars of "the (regressive) right" in the culture wars.
Maybe, but ~5m people doesn't have that much real sway in vote terms; their power is their willingness to pick up the phone/write/text/email their representatives and regurgitate whatever the NRA have told them to, if a rep gets a cheque from the NRA and their office gets hundreds of letters asking them to vote against the bill to outlaw concealed carry bazookas then they're inclined to do that.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Thursday 26th May 20:56

kowalski655

14,639 posts

143 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Petrus1983 said:
The Onion front page is very apt, as usual -

https://www.theonion.com/
They have used the same headline dozens of time, only the pictures of the dead change

gotoPzero

17,227 posts

189 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
We have been through this many times on this thread. The AR is not really any different to any other semi automatic rifle. Its .223 / 5.56 ammo is not even that potent in terms of rifles.

They are not even the most popular gun used in mass shootings.

They are almost never used by criminals.

If you really, really want to do something about gun deaths in the USA ban all handguns.

Just how you get them all back I have no clue, given the millions in the hands of criminals are impossible to trace plus the millions legally owned that are not registered.... thats the issue here.


kowalski655

14,639 posts

143 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Castrol for a knave said:
What exactly are the 2nd Amendment gun nuts protecting themselves from? The British went home over 200 years ago.

There is no existential threat. It is all in their tiny minds.

......
The 2A fanbois always forget about the "well regulated militia" part to justify having more guns than most armies, and I'm not talking about Meal Team 6. Well regulated militias don't murder kids

Byker28i

59,720 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
gotoPzero said:
We have been through this many times on this thread. The AR is not really any different to any other semi automatic rifle. Its .223 / 5.56 ammo is not even that potent in terms of rifles.

They are not even the most popular gun used in mass shootings.

They are almost never used by criminals.

If you really, really want to do something about gun deaths in the USA ban all handguns.

Just how you get them all back I have no clue, given the millions in the hands of criminals are impossible to trace plus the millions legally owned that are not registered.... thats the issue here.

I'll repeat this again and again and again. It's doable. The UK did it, Australia did it.
You licence, you register, you have proper checks, and you limit ownership of types of weapons, using buyback to remove weapons

Byker28i

59,720 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Ted Cruz walks away from being challenged
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/152972961430990...

hidetheelephants

24,289 posts

193 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
kowalski655 said:
Castrol for a knave said:
What exactly are the 2nd Amendment gun nuts protecting themselves from? The British went home over 200 years ago.

There is no existential threat. It is all in their tiny minds.

......
The 2A fanbois always forget about the "well regulated militia" part to justify having more guns than most armies, and I'm not talking about Meal Team 6. Well regulated militias don't murder kids
A literal interpretation of 2A would require the militia to be well-regulated; all guns registered, the ATF must be allowed to digitise its carpark full of containers stuffed with paperwork dating back 50+ years and the CDC allowed to investigate gunshot deaths and injuries as though they were the public health epidemic that they actually are.

kowalski655

14,639 posts

143 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
Ted Cruz walks away from being challenged
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/152972961430990...
Off to check the next flight time for Cancun

gotoPzero

17,227 posts

189 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
gotoPzero said:
We have been through this many times on this thread. The AR is not really any different to any other semi automatic rifle. Its .223 / 5.56 ammo is not even that potent in terms of rifles.

They are not even the most popular gun used in mass shootings.

They are almost never used by criminals.

If you really, really want to do something about gun deaths in the USA ban all handguns.

Just how you get them all back I have no clue, given the millions in the hands of criminals are impossible to trace plus the millions legally owned that are not registered.... thats the issue here.

I'll repeat this again and again and again. It's doable. The UK did it, Australia did it.
You licence, you register, you have proper checks, and you limit ownership of types of weapons, using buyback to remove weapons
They are starting from a very different situation thats the difference. They are in a tight spot.

Byker28i

59,720 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
hidetheelephants said:
kowalski655 said:
Castrol for a knave said:
What exactly are the 2nd Amendment gun nuts protecting themselves from? The British went home over 200 years ago.

There is no existential threat. It is all in their tiny minds.

......
The 2A fanbois always forget about the "well regulated militia" part to justify having more guns than most armies, and I'm not talking about Meal Team 6. Well regulated militias don't murder kids
A literal interpretation of 2A would require the militia to be well-regulated; all guns registered, the ATF must be allowed to digitise its carpark full of containers stuffed with paperwork dating back 50+ years and the CDC allowed to investigate gunshot deaths and injuries as though they were the public health epidemic that they actually are.
What's certain is that an 18 teenager with a grudge doesn't anywhere near meet the requirements of a well trained militia. In fact it's the complete opposite...

captain_cynic

11,985 posts

95 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
gotoPzero said:
Byker28i said:
gotoPzero said:
We have been through this many times on this thread. The AR is not really any different to any other semi automatic rifle. Its .223 / 5.56 ammo is not even that potent in terms of rifles.

They are not even the most popular gun used in mass shootings.

They are almost never used by criminals.

If you really, really want to do something about gun deaths in the USA ban all handguns.

Just how you get them all back I have no clue, given the millions in the hands of criminals are impossible to trace plus the millions legally owned that are not registered.... thats the issue here.

I'll repeat this again and again and again. It's doable. The UK did it, Australia did it.
You licence, you register, you have proper checks, and you limit ownership of types of weapons, using buyback to remove weapons
They are starting from a very different situation thats the difference. They are in a tight spot.
That is no excuse for not starting.

The US has a serious issue with the glorification of violence and the fetishization of weapons. If they start to tackle those problems, gun control will become the natural consequence of a changing attitude to firearms.

The reason the changes and buyback worked in the UK and Australia was because after a traumatic event, the nation realised that it's attitude needed to change. The same can happen in the US as well. Is happening in the US, but slowly.

Again, that is no excuse for not starting, definitely no excuse for not trying harder.

Edited by captain_cynic on Thursday 26th May 21:42

Byker28i

59,720 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all

Byker28i

59,720 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
It's worth pointing out that guns are banned from trumps appearance at the NRA conference where he's speaking...

Byker28i

59,720 posts

217 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
Ron johnson, who has received I've $1m from the NRA running from questions

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...

MC Bodge

21,627 posts

175 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
That is no excuse for not starting.

The US has a serious issue with the glorification of violence and the fetishization of weapons. If they start to tackle those problems, gun control will become the natural consequence of a changing attitude to firearms.

The reason the changes and buyback worked in the UK and Australia was because after a traumatic event, the nation realised that it's attitude needed to change. The same can happen in the US as well. Is happening in the US, but slowly.

Again, that is no excuse for not starting, definitely no excuse for not trying harder.
Agreed. It needs to start somewhere.

The simplistic and often downright stupid rhetoric from the pro-gun "freedom" spokespeople is embarrassing.

HM-2

12,467 posts

169 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
gotoPzero said:
The AR is not really any different to any other semi automatic rifle.
gotoPzero said:
They are not even the most popular gun used in mass shootings.
gotoPzero said:
If you really, really want to do something about gun deaths in the USA ban all handguns.
Some "interesting" mental gymnastics going on here.

"A is really not that different to B"
"B isn't even the most popular gun in mass shootings"
"You should really worry about C"

The thing is, AR-15 pattern semi-automatic rifles are actually the most popular weapons for mass shootings. They are MASSIVELY overrepresented when it comes to mass casualty shooting incidents in the US.

About thirty percent of recent US mass shootings resulting in four or more fatalities have involved AR-15 pattern rifles. There's only around 10 million AR-15 pattern rifles in the US, top estimate, compared to 72 million handguns and 76 million rifles generally.

AR-15 type rifles comprise circa 15% of all rifles in circulation in the US, yet account for about 85% of mass shootings involving rifles. They're approximately four times as likely to be used in a mass shooting as handguns in general- not a specific pattern, or calibre, or type, of handgun, but handguns overall.

Jeanboi

2,562 posts

219 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
kowalski655 said:
Byker28i said:
Ted Cruz walks away from being challenged
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/152972961430990...
Off to check the next flight time for Cancun
Yeah Cruz could do with STFU-ing right now.
This has happened far too many times (once is more than enough).
I'm sick of hopes and prayers from those that defend their gun culture. Those words mean nothing when coming from these people.

shoestring7

6,138 posts

246 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
kowalski655 said:
Petrus1983 said:
The Onion front page is very apt, as usual -

https://www.theonion.com/
They have used the same headline dozens of time, only the pictures of the dead change
...and the locations...

g4ry13

16,979 posts

255 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
HM-2 said:
gotoPzero said:
The AR is not really any different to any other semi automatic rifle.
gotoPzero said:
They are not even the most popular gun used in mass shootings.
gotoPzero said:
If you really, really want to do something about gun deaths in the USA ban all handguns.
Some "interesting" mental gymnastics going on here.

"A is really not that different to B"
"B isn't even the most popular gun in mass shootings"
"You should really worry about C"

The thing is, AR-15 pattern semi-automatic rifles are actually the most popular weapons for mass shootings. They are MASSIVELY overrepresented when it comes to mass casualty shooting incidents in the US.

About thirty percent of recent US mass shootings resulting in four or more fatalities have involved AR-15 pattern rifles. There's only around 10 million AR-15 pattern rifles in the US, top estimate, compared to 72 million handguns and 76 million rifles generally.

AR-15 type rifles comprise circa 15% of all rifles in circulation in the US, yet account for about 85% of mass shootings involving rifles. They're approximately four times as likely to be used in a mass shooting as handguns in general- not a specific pattern, or calibre, or type, of handgun, but handguns overall.
Although mass shootings are shocking and get a lot of coverage, they make up a tiny % of US gun deaths which gotoPzero was referring to..

gotoPzero

17,227 posts

189 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
quotequote all
g4ry13 said:
Although mass shootings are shocking and get a lot of coverage, they make up a tiny % of US gun deaths which gotoPzero was referring to..
This.