A tree fell on my car. Where to start?
Discussion
Yesterday I went shopping.
Nearing the end of the shop, just about to go back for some salad we'd forgotten on the way around the store, when I got the dreaded "will the owner of 'AB12 CDE' please come to customer services.
I'd parked near the back of the car park, in a clear space, well within the lines, and there was nothing that the car could have been blocking. So I knew it couldn't be anything good.
Expecting to find the trolley collector had steered some trolleys into it, or that someone had had a low speed maneuvering bump and 'fessed up, I went off to the customer services desk.
"I'm very sorry" said the Commercial Manager of the store, "but a tree has fallen on your car".
So out we went, across the car park to where I'd parked. I was expecting to find a squashed-flat, undriveable lump, but no. The car didn't look too bad from a distance. It turns out that the tree a) wasn't really that big; and b) it was pretty rotten as it turned out, and had shattered into smaller pieces. The tree was lying diagonally across the car, or at least the pieces of it were.
The car is a '12' plate Mondeo with 60,600 miles on it. The damage starts above the rear passenger door, there's panel and trim damage to both doors, but the worst is the roof. A big dent over the front passenger area right behind the windscreen. Damage continues to other parts of the roof, a large dent at the front driver's side of the bonnet, and the front driver's side wing. That's the worst of it. There may be other knocks from smaller branches too. But all the doors open and shut, it seems weather tight, and although the door mirror took a big knock it also seems to be OK. It folds automatically when I lock it as it should. Amazingly even the windscreen appears intact.
The Commercial Manager took some details, after I'd taken some photos. The car was driveable, so we got ourselves and the shopping home OK. The Manager accepted that it was the fault of the supermarket, and he also accepted that the tree was "clearly not in good shape". But I got none of that in writing or on tape, so that story might change when it gets into the hands of their legal department. I'm not very positive about the idea of dealing with any of this right now, as both my insurer and Sainsbury's legal department will be treating this as a pure numbers game, I'm sure, whereas I have become really rather attached to this otherwise humble motor car. It may be "just another Mondeo" to others, but to me it's the newest, and most expensive car I ever bought. I paid more than I'd planned in order to get a top-of-the-line (Titanium X, 2.0 TDCi, 163hp) car in a good colour. It was second-hand, but only six months old and with 6,000 miles on when I bought it. I just want this car back really.
I'm not sure what will happen now. I know I need to report it to my insurer, but the Sainsburys manager mentioned "getting two quotes and passing it on to their legal department". I REALLY like this car. I would like to have it repaired rather than written off, but I suspect given it's age that the pre-accident value to repair cost ratio will make it uneconomical for my insurance company to commence repairs. The flip side of this, though, is that I don't want to be the one running around getting quotes from body shops, and dealing direct with Sainsburys. (I do accept that this does sound a lot like I want "the moon on a stick", to be fair).
When it happened, my emotions were all over the place. Initially a deep dark downer, fearing I'd be stranded with a week's shopping and no car. Then rising anger, then the realisation that there was no-one I could directly blame, no outlet for the anger. Then just a numbness as I realised I was likely to lose a car I bought as a 'retirement' present to myself, and which was to be a long-term keeper. I realise I'm highly unlikely to be able to replace it with something I can be assured has been as well looked after, and so I will lose out.
So has anyone got any advice as to where to start on this?
Q? Do I hand the whole thing over to my insurer to sort?
Q? Or do I start by talking to Sainsburys?
Q? With the roof damage, is it likely to end up being declared a 'total loss'?
Q? It's their tree, their car park, and the tree (and one next door in the row) appears to even the untrained eye to be significantly "dead" compared to the others in the row. Does this open up the possibility of getting back more than just the stark financial value of the car by way of compensation? I'm not after punitive compensation, there were no injuries, after all, and I'm just glad I (or anyone else for that matter) wasn't walking along that footway, or loading the car when it came down. But if they'd have taken the tree down when it died, before it went rotten to the point where the wind snapped the roots rather than pulling them up, then I wouldn't be in this position.
Part of me blames myself. I'd actively sought out this quieter part of the car park, in the hope of avoiding door-dings and idiots parking so close that I can't get into my car. Another tree that was closer to my car was in good shape, healthy enough, with remnants of leaves, and signs of new growth, with all it's bark intact. And if I'd have parked the car in just about any other part of the car park this event wouldn't even have registered for me.
I'll try to put up some photos later. But for now, any sensible advice as to how to deal with this swiftly and sensibly without escalating things with management companies and hire cars, etc, would be welcome. And obviously, a warning to anyone who reads this to take good care when parking, not just at ground level, but in this windy weather make sure you all park your cars outside the "blast radius" of any trees in the car park, lest they fall on your car too.
I'm off now to have a look at the 'Shed of the week' thread for some ideas for a temporary replacement...
Nearing the end of the shop, just about to go back for some salad we'd forgotten on the way around the store, when I got the dreaded "will the owner of 'AB12 CDE' please come to customer services.
I'd parked near the back of the car park, in a clear space, well within the lines, and there was nothing that the car could have been blocking. So I knew it couldn't be anything good.
Expecting to find the trolley collector had steered some trolleys into it, or that someone had had a low speed maneuvering bump and 'fessed up, I went off to the customer services desk.
"I'm very sorry" said the Commercial Manager of the store, "but a tree has fallen on your car".
So out we went, across the car park to where I'd parked. I was expecting to find a squashed-flat, undriveable lump, but no. The car didn't look too bad from a distance. It turns out that the tree a) wasn't really that big; and b) it was pretty rotten as it turned out, and had shattered into smaller pieces. The tree was lying diagonally across the car, or at least the pieces of it were.
The car is a '12' plate Mondeo with 60,600 miles on it. The damage starts above the rear passenger door, there's panel and trim damage to both doors, but the worst is the roof. A big dent over the front passenger area right behind the windscreen. Damage continues to other parts of the roof, a large dent at the front driver's side of the bonnet, and the front driver's side wing. That's the worst of it. There may be other knocks from smaller branches too. But all the doors open and shut, it seems weather tight, and although the door mirror took a big knock it also seems to be OK. It folds automatically when I lock it as it should. Amazingly even the windscreen appears intact.
The Commercial Manager took some details, after I'd taken some photos. The car was driveable, so we got ourselves and the shopping home OK. The Manager accepted that it was the fault of the supermarket, and he also accepted that the tree was "clearly not in good shape". But I got none of that in writing or on tape, so that story might change when it gets into the hands of their legal department. I'm not very positive about the idea of dealing with any of this right now, as both my insurer and Sainsbury's legal department will be treating this as a pure numbers game, I'm sure, whereas I have become really rather attached to this otherwise humble motor car. It may be "just another Mondeo" to others, but to me it's the newest, and most expensive car I ever bought. I paid more than I'd planned in order to get a top-of-the-line (Titanium X, 2.0 TDCi, 163hp) car in a good colour. It was second-hand, but only six months old and with 6,000 miles on when I bought it. I just want this car back really.
I'm not sure what will happen now. I know I need to report it to my insurer, but the Sainsburys manager mentioned "getting two quotes and passing it on to their legal department". I REALLY like this car. I would like to have it repaired rather than written off, but I suspect given it's age that the pre-accident value to repair cost ratio will make it uneconomical for my insurance company to commence repairs. The flip side of this, though, is that I don't want to be the one running around getting quotes from body shops, and dealing direct with Sainsburys. (I do accept that this does sound a lot like I want "the moon on a stick", to be fair).
When it happened, my emotions were all over the place. Initially a deep dark downer, fearing I'd be stranded with a week's shopping and no car. Then rising anger, then the realisation that there was no-one I could directly blame, no outlet for the anger. Then just a numbness as I realised I was likely to lose a car I bought as a 'retirement' present to myself, and which was to be a long-term keeper. I realise I'm highly unlikely to be able to replace it with something I can be assured has been as well looked after, and so I will lose out.
So has anyone got any advice as to where to start on this?
Q? Do I hand the whole thing over to my insurer to sort?
Q? Or do I start by talking to Sainsburys?
Q? With the roof damage, is it likely to end up being declared a 'total loss'?
Q? It's their tree, their car park, and the tree (and one next door in the row) appears to even the untrained eye to be significantly "dead" compared to the others in the row. Does this open up the possibility of getting back more than just the stark financial value of the car by way of compensation? I'm not after punitive compensation, there were no injuries, after all, and I'm just glad I (or anyone else for that matter) wasn't walking along that footway, or loading the car when it came down. But if they'd have taken the tree down when it died, before it went rotten to the point where the wind snapped the roots rather than pulling them up, then I wouldn't be in this position.
Part of me blames myself. I'd actively sought out this quieter part of the car park, in the hope of avoiding door-dings and idiots parking so close that I can't get into my car. Another tree that was closer to my car was in good shape, healthy enough, with remnants of leaves, and signs of new growth, with all it's bark intact. And if I'd have parked the car in just about any other part of the car park this event wouldn't even have registered for me.
I'll try to put up some photos later. But for now, any sensible advice as to how to deal with this swiftly and sensibly without escalating things with management companies and hire cars, etc, would be welcome. And obviously, a warning to anyone who reads this to take good care when parking, not just at ground level, but in this windy weather make sure you all park your cars outside the "blast radius" of any trees in the car park, lest they fall on your car too.
I'm off now to have a look at the 'Shed of the week' thread for some ideas for a temporary replacement...
Hand it over to your insurer. Sounds like a write off I'm afraid.
The manager can say what he wants in order to placate a customer but in law, youl (or your insurers) will have to prove negligence of the tree owners to recover outlay from them. I suspect that's going to be hard. The tree may not have been in good shape but is it reasonable for the supermarket to have known about it before the event.
Unless they admit that the parlous state of the tree has been pointed out to them previously, I doubt they will be liable.
This is why we have fully comp cover. Because bad stuff happens and sometimes it's not anyone's fault.
The manager can say what he wants in order to placate a customer but in law, youl (or your insurers) will have to prove negligence of the tree owners to recover outlay from them. I suspect that's going to be hard. The tree may not have been in good shape but is it reasonable for the supermarket to have known about it before the event.
Unless they admit that the parlous state of the tree has been pointed out to them previously, I doubt they will be liable.
This is why we have fully comp cover. Because bad stuff happens and sometimes it's not anyone's fault.
Bad luck OP
Nothing to add on the legal side of things, but last year my friends partner had a roof tile fall on her 2010 Focus (1.6 diesel 50k) they went through the insurance as the roof had caved in and pierced, i thought it would be written off but it was repaired with a new roof skin, really surprised me, fingers crossed for your Mondeo!
Nothing to add on the legal side of things, but last year my friends partner had a roof tile fall on her 2010 Focus (1.6 diesel 50k) they went through the insurance as the roof had caved in and pierced, i thought it would be written off but it was repaired with a new roof skin, really surprised me, fingers crossed for your Mondeo!
strain said:
Bad luck OP
Nothing to add on the legal side of things, but last year my friends partner had a roof tile fall on her 2010 Focus (1.6 diesel 50k) they went through the insurance as the roof had caved in and pierced, i thought it would be written off but it was repaired with a new roof skin, really surprised me, fingers crossed for your Mondeo!
Thanks for that. I won't get my hopes up too high, but hey? It might be a small light at the end of a very long tunnel, but I'll cross my fingers a bit harder now... Nothing to add on the legal side of things, but last year my friends partner had a roof tile fall on her 2010 Focus (1.6 diesel 50k) they went through the insurance as the roof had caved in and pierced, i thought it would be written off but it was repaired with a new roof skin, really surprised me, fingers crossed for your Mondeo!
This is the sort of thing I was hoping to hear really. I've looked after the car really well and just don't want to have to jump into the risky business of having to search for another motor that could turn out to be a complete lemon...
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Hand it over to your insurer. Sounds like a write off I'm afraid.
The manager can say what he wants in order to placate a customer but in law, youl (or your insurers) will have to prove negligence of the tree owners to recover outlay from them. I suspect that's going to be hard. The tree may not have been in good shape but is it reasonable for the supermarket to have known about it before the event.
Unless they admit that the parlous state of the tree has been pointed out to them previously, I doubt they will be liable.
This is why we have fully comp cover. Because bad stuff happens and sometimes it's not anyone's fault.
I suppose I pretty much expected this would be the case. I'm not wet behind the ears, so I know about insurance and liability enough to know that it's why I have insurance. But that's mainly (legal obligation) to ensure I can afford to put right any damage I do to a third party, and (entirely optional) to provide fully comprehensive cover to put right any damage that I inflict on myself.The manager can say what he wants in order to placate a customer but in law, youl (or your insurers) will have to prove negligence of the tree owners to recover outlay from them. I suspect that's going to be hard. The tree may not have been in good shape but is it reasonable for the supermarket to have known about it before the event.
Unless they admit that the parlous state of the tree has been pointed out to them previously, I doubt they will be liable.
This is why we have fully comp cover. Because bad stuff happens and sometimes it's not anyone's fault.
I'm presuming that Sainsbury's will either have a corporate insurance policy for just this sort of thing, or they'll "self-insure" and handle it in house. I'm not sure which, as I further presume that anyone (or at least anyone who has sufficient financial clout) can fund repairs or pay compensation without involving an insurance company if they so wish. To be honest, I'm not fussed either way, but I'd obviously prefer to have my own car back and fully repaired at the end of this than have to fork out the extra cash to put me back into (what I personally view as) the equivalent car.
If anyone else has anything of assistance to add, any advice to give, then I'd appreciate it. But before today is out I'm going to have to at least report the occurrence to my own insurer. But at least (I hope) there's going to be no he said/she said b
h-fighting about blame as there might have been if it had been another car involved...vx220 said:
No advice, and sad to hear of your predicament, but "moon on a stick" made me laugh and cheered me up on an otherwise dull morning...
Well I'm glad to have cheered someone up with my tale of woe. All I have at the moment is the fact that "it could have been a lot worse"...yellowjack said:
I'm presuming that Sainsbury's will either have a corporate insurance policy for just this sort of thing, or they'll "self-insure" and handle it in house.
It'll fall under their public liability cover. Property damage or injury caused to a third party (that's you and me) whilst on their premises as a result of their negligence. Slipping over on a jar of broken jam in the isle, or a tree falling on your car in the car park. The tricky bit is proving their negligence. But just leave it all to you own insurer.
yellowjack said:
Well I'm glad to have cheered someone up with my tale of woe. All I have at the moment is the fact that "it could have been a lot worse"...
Yep. At least you weren’t loading your shopping when it came down.As Twig says (he’s in insurance, I believe) it’s the negligence bit that might trip up any chance of a claim against Sainsbury’s.
I used to think that any damage to a 3rd party or their property was covered by your insurance but I’ve learned from the experts on PH that it’s not the case.
If the tree was on Sainsbury's land then they do have a duty of care to ensure that it is healthy and poses as little risk as possible, by that if it is diseased or old appropriate steps should be taken to ensure that any part of or the whole tree will not fall and possibly cause damage or injure anybody.
Just google tree liability.
If i were you I would not go through my car insurance unless Sainsbury's do not play ball.
Just google tree liability.
If i were you I would not go through my car insurance unless Sainsbury's do not play ball.
Bad luck OP
If the car is written off you should be able to buy the salvage back and have it repaired yourself.
The payout should leave you enough to do this.
I don’t think your really entitled to compensation,although that’s only my opinion and not s legal one. You are entitled to be put back in the position you were in before the tree fell on the car,and that is a 5yr old Mondeo with 60k on it. Insurance doesn’t pay out on how attached you are to it.
If the car is written off you should be able to buy the salvage back and have it repaired yourself.
The payout should leave you enough to do this.
I don’t think your really entitled to compensation,although that’s only my opinion and not s legal one. You are entitled to be put back in the position you were in before the tree fell on the car,and that is a 5yr old Mondeo with 60k on it. Insurance doesn’t pay out on how attached you are to it.
If the tree/branch was rotten wouldn't there be a duty of care of the landowner to an area where the public have access?
A disclaimer on the land is one thing but not checking trees/removing is negligence?
After all if it had fallen on a member of public. Could the shop say 'sorry read the disclaimer'?
I'd be contacting their insurer/legal advice.
For me any disclaimer would apply to carpark dings from other customers
A disclaimer on the land is one thing but not checking trees/removing is negligence?
After all if it had fallen on a member of public. Could the shop say 'sorry read the disclaimer'?
I'd be contacting their insurer/legal advice.
For me any disclaimer would apply to carpark dings from other customers
sherbertdip said:
If the tree was on Sainsbury's land then they do have a duty of care to ensure that it is healthy and poses as little risk as possible, by that if it is diseased or old appropriate steps should be taken to ensure that any part of or the whole tree will not fall and possibly cause damage or injure anybody.
It all comes down to reasonableness. They probably have a large number of trees on their land. How often should they be inspecting them? How unhealthy was it? How unusual were the winds that brought it down? Many factors to be taken into account. Sa Calobra said:
If the tree/branch was rotten wouldn't there be a duty of care of the landowner to an area where the public have access?
A disclaimer on the land is one thing but not checking trees/removing is negligence?
After all if it had fallen on a member of public. Could the shop say 'sorry read the disclaimer'?
They could say "were weren't negligent". I've not seen the tree so don't know. People get injured all the time, being hit by stuff in high winds. It's not always the fault of the owner of the stuff that hits them. A disclaimer on the land is one thing but not checking trees/removing is negligence?
After all if it had fallen on a member of public. Could the shop say 'sorry read the disclaimer'?
PorkInsider said:
I used to think that any damage to a 3rd party or their property was covered by your insurance but I’ve learned from the experts on PH that it’s not the case.
Yes, it's a common misconception. You insurance covers your legal liability to third parties. If you are not legally liable, it isn't covered, which isn't an issue, because you don't have to pay. With a couple of rare exceptions specified in law, unless you were negligent, you aren't liable.
In a case like this, a supermarket might choose to pay, thus it's a commercial decision to please a customer and earn some goodwill. But they will do that from their own pocket, their insurance won't cover it.
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