Migration & Immigration

[Boosted LS1]

There are trolls on here who will keep the immigrant thread going even though sensible people don't want unlimited immigration. Unskilled mass immigration in such a short term isn't good for us unless you want to increase the labour vote or have a political agenda.

The current wave of unskilled immigrants and their families puts us at risk of increased crime and a greater tax burden. They aren't building cathedrals like the Normans did and maybe we should pay nurses more. We don't need them or their children's children.

It's also daft to suggest we need more people to pay more taxes so that we can have more people to pay more taxes. We should pay people £10k to leave this land where they can get rich in some 'ikistan country''.

We need less immigrant people in the UK and should fill the jobs ourselves. This place is overstretched as it is.

[Boosted LS1]

markcoznottz said:

TooMany2cvs said:

wsurfa said:

TooMany2cvs said:

wsurfa said:

...their estimate for the 2015 election was just under 4m migrants ( foreign-born UK residents according to categorisation used within the 2001/2011 Censuses) would be eligible to vote.

Ah, yes. "Foreign-born UK residents". That includes people like my ex-business partner, born in Germany when his father was posted there in the British Army... Always been a British national, as are both of his parents. It also includes Boris Johnson.

In 2015, the estimate was 13.5% (8.7m) of the population were foreign-born, and 8.9% (more than 5m) foreign citizens.
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources...

So those figures give around...well... not very many foreign citizens who are eligible to vote. <400K or so...

You could always read the relatively unbiased paper, which also makes the point that the "Boris'" make up a relatively small proportion.

Mmm. Foreign-born UK nationals make up about 90% of the foreign-born-but-eligible-to-vote, it'd seem.

Oh, wait... You're regarding people who've taken UK nationality as somehow less British than people born with it, aren't you?

Be careful though, there are predominantly Muslim primary schools in Birmingham where if kids are asked if they feel British, not a single one would raise their hand.

In they're mind they're not British, they are muslim. In my mind, well what can I say? So much for integration.

[Boosted LS1]

The Dangerous Elk said:

mickmcpaddy said:

If immigrants are such an asset to other Countries and they contribute more as a whole than they take out, then why are France doing their best to offload all the Calais migrants onto us? Surely their economy needs all the help it can get.

Same for other Countries, quite a few struggling ones are putting up big fences.

Maybe they think France is a stHole ?

They want to be here. Britain with it's welfare state is the land of milk and honey. Mx5nut and that 2cv's bloke are happy to pay for it, lol but at taxpayers expense. Thank God for the English Channel and a better UK border patrol.

[vsonix]

Atomic12C said:

But I would say that our western intervention in the middle-east, more to oust leaders we don't like rather than the premise of protecting the people from those regimes, has created more problems than it has solved.

Very true, and by a similar token the fact our economy is massively boosted by arming various sides in conflicts round the world surely amplifies that exponentially. Unless our economy breaks free of the Military Industrial Complex, completely wash our hands of arms production and sales our country will continue to put innocent citizens in the firing line both here and overseas by peddling WMDs to all and sundry.

[vsonix]

Not-The-Messiah said:

The west has turned into a load of rich spoilt out of touch Marie Antoinette's going " let them all eat cake". Personally I think it's going to end up in similar fashion.

Do you even know the context of that saying? Cos you are misapplying it rather clumsily.

[Boosted LS1]

I don't think she ever said that.

[The Dangerous Elk]

vsonix said:

Very true, and by a similar token the fact our economy is massively boosted by arming various sides in conflicts round the world surely amplifies that exponentially. Unless our economy breaks free of the Military Industrial Complex, completely wash our hands of arms production and sales our country will continue to put innocent citizens in the firing line both here and overseas by peddling WMDs to all and sundry.

Opps, doing A Level Politics with old textbooks passed down from Jeremy Corbyn are we ?

[anonymous-user]

TooMany2cvs said:

wsurfa said:

It's a perfectly well written paper discussing the potential impact of migrant voters on the 2015 election whether or not you agree with the political position of the authors and/or sponsors.

And you miss my point completely.

Let me be clearer: Very, very few foreign nationals can vote here.
Almost all of the foreign-born voters are British people.

A foreign born voter is, by definition, a migrant. I am one for example under the definitions used.

I'm not that recent a migrant though having arrived in the UK in the 1970's.

The point being that there are a significant number of migrants who are eligible to vote, and that there is a clear pattern to their voting - this is not a bloc vote by any means, but is a pattern.

If you have a problem with the MRN or BarrowCadbury you should take it up with them. MRN are the ones saying that the 'Boris' group are in a minority of the figure they are discussing. Of course you don't need to be a British citizen to vote, any qualifying commonwealth citizen (or Irish republic) can also.

If your point is that people who are not eligible to vote in the UK cannot vote in the UK, well, right....

What actually is your point, forgive me but it doesn't seem very clear.

[Boosted LS1]

Oh it's very clear. He like to raise an argument. Any argument will do.

[anonymous-user]

Boosted LS1 said:

Oh it's very clear. He like to raise an argument. Any argument will do.

5 mins or the full half hour?

[Not-The-Messiah]

vsonix said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

The west has turned into a load of rich spoilt out of touch Marie Antoinette's going " let them all eat cake". Personally I think it's going to end up in similar fashion.

Do you even know the context of that saying? Cos you are misapplying it rather clumsily.

I know, I argued the point with myself after posting and came to the same conclusion. It was more about how out of touch some people are.

[vsonix]

The Dangerous Elk said:

vsonix said:

Very true, and by a similar token the fact our economy is massively boosted by arming various sides in conflicts round the world surely amplifies that exponentially. Unless our economy breaks free of the Military Industrial Complex, completely wash our hands of arms production and sales our country will continue to put innocent citizens in the firing line both here and overseas by peddling WMDs to all and sundry.

Opps, doing A Level Politics with old textbooks passed down from Jeremy Corbyn are we ?

I just googled 'UK Arms Exports'
Those are the top results.



you're telling me there are no vested interests?

tbh I am worried as to how a whole page of search results can come up with only Guardian and Independent links. That is pretty sus. Is Google trying to influence me with search results?

Edited by vsonix on Thursday 18th January 22:46

[Boosted LS1]

wsurfa said:

Boosted LS1 said:

Oh it's very clear. He like to raise an argument. Any argument will do.

5 mins or the full half hour?

He likes to drag it out and suck you dry if he can. Better then any we but he gives his best.

Oops a slapper lady of the night that you pay for services.

[gooner1]

The Dangerous Elk said:

mickmcpaddy said:

If immigrants are such an asset to other Countries and they contribute more as a whole than they take out, then why are France doing their best to offload all the Calais migrants onto us? Surely their economy needs all the help it can get.

Same for other Countries, quite a few struggling ones are putting up big fences.

Maybe they think France is a stHole ?

And all the countries they travelled through, to reach France?

[The Dangerous Elk]

gooner1 said:

And all the countries they travelled through, to reach France?

May they are stHoles as well

I was pulling his leg mate

[Digga]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The premise that current economic orthodoxy fails to grasp or account for how political and societal issues, influences and impact on economic subjects is at the heart of the campaign to reform the discipline: http://www.rethinkeconomics.org/

[Atomic12C]

Roman Rhodes said:

And what about the many on here who hide behind the 'you're playing the racism card' and 'you're shutting down debate' cards? There seems no shortage of posts here demonstrating a very narrow view of society and lack of empathy for anyone different. You're having your say and you can call it what you like - it's still ugly and rather dispiriting that many of the sad old attitudes of 30 - 40 years ago are prevalent.

"I'm not racist in anyway".

That isn't a card by the way - feel free to carry on!

At the same time others should be entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it or not.

I've heard it said more often that many people are fighting back against political correctness these days as people are becoming much more aware of what it is - simply the fact that only one political viewpoint is deemed acceptable.
Which in a democratic society is never going to work and will always meet strong opposition.
You can not have only one political viewpoint where the demographic is made up of left-wing and right-wing public.
That approach is called one-party rule, communism, dictatorships etc. etc.

Generally speaking - Immigration affects some people more than others, their opinions will differ based on the strength of the effects.
Its easy for one person to say uncontrolled/illegal immigration should not be stopped when they never see the effects, where as another person who lives in an area where immigration effects are high will have a strong view about it.
Many of these views have nothing to do with race. Some will. But again, people are entitled to their opinion.

If people are suppressed in their opinion what you find is "surprising" results come election/referendum time.
Note : Recent Austrian elections, German elections, Brexit, Trump, etc. etc.

[TooMany2cvs]

Atomic12C said:

I've heard it said more often that many people are fighting back against political correctness these days as people are becoming much more aware of what it is - simply the fact that only one political viewpoint is deemed acceptable.

That's not what "political correctness" is. What it is is simply giving everybody basic respect - even if they aren't like you.

Many people find that difficult.

[Digga]

TooMany2cvs said:

Atomic12C said:

I've heard it said more often that many people are fighting back against political correctness these days as people are becoming much more aware of what it is - simply the fact that only one political viewpoint is deemed acceptable.

That's not what "political correctness" is. What it is is simply giving everybody basic respect - even if they aren't like you.

Many people find that difficult.

Unfortunately, PC has been twisted and convoluted to become equivalent to a smug, self-righteous, totalitarian, unquestioning, intellectual mono-culture.

[TooMany2cvs]

Digga said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Atomic12C said:

I've heard it said more often that many people are fighting back against political correctness these days as people are becoming much more aware of what it is - simply the fact that only one political viewpoint is deemed acceptable.

That's not what "political correctness" is. What it is is simply giving everybody basic respect - even if they aren't like you.

Many people find that difficult.

Unfortunately, PC has been twisted and convoluted to become equivalent to a smug, self-righteous, totalitarian, unquestioning, intellectual mono-culture.

A lot of people claim that, yes.

They're the ones who find it hard to give basic respect to people who are different to them, and they'd rather bluster than admit their bigotry.