45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 4)

[Byker28i]

Gameface said:

A lot of these school shooters are armed to the teeth with assault rifles and masses of ammo etc, yet these school guards have only a pistol and limited ammo I'd imagine.

As for Trump, I find it rich that he wants teachers to wade into armed confrontation when he used his bone spurs excuse to forever avoid anything of the kind.

The trouble is, most of the school shooters are disturbed students of these schools. Teachers nurture, not kill, so their natural response would be to try to protect their other students or talk the rogue student down. It's not in their nature to want to harm those in their care.

The other issue is that Trumps plan to stop troubled students getting guns is to make them more readily available, by hanging them onto teachers...

[Byker28i]

Back to Russia.

Tom Arnold is saying: Putin called Trump at Moscow Ritz Nov 2013. Trump put on speakerphone for everyone to hear. Putin congratulated Trump on Trump Tower Moscow & encouraged Trump to run for President & offered Russia’s support. It’s all on tape dude.

https://twitter.com/TomArnold/status/9668320621320...

This backs up Emin Agalarov telling Forbes magazine that Trump signed a letter-of-intent to build Trump Tower Moscow in November '13.

[The Dangerous Elk]

[redacted]

[RobDickinson]

The Dangerous Elk said:

Go on then, you help them. What is your solution to the immediate problem ?

gun control?

Its not that difficult to say...

[SHutchinson]

[redacted]

[Byker28i]

[redacted]

[roachcoach]

[redacted]

[liner33]

Columbine massacre was shotguns and handguns. You don't need semi automatic rifles to carry out a school shooting so there is no logic to think that banning them will stop the problem

I'm not saying gun control isn't needed but I'm smart enough to realise I don't have a solution for this problem.

[Byker28i]

Funkycoldribena said:

roachcoach said:

Not having an immediate solution is no reason to make the situation fking worse. And yes, arming teachers is guaranteed to make things worse.

Anyone who thinks that's a good idea needs their head examined.

But once again, he's successfully jangled the keys and everyone is off hook, line and sinker talking about the worlds dumbest idea as if it has credence instead of actually tackling the issue. I don't know what the NRA paid him, but it was worth it.

I'm not saying its a good idea but how do you know its "guaranteed"?
Seems like an opinion not a guarantee unless its been tried and failed.

I think dino covered it. America is hugely litigious

dino_jr said:

Stolen for elsewhere, but this highlights the insanity... School shootings in the future:

Teacher becomes automatic 1st target in any school shooting scenario.
Teacher themselves uses weapon on pupils/colleagues - either on purpose or by accident when "responding" to a school shooting/imagined incident
Teacher is killed by 1st responders.
Teacher is killed by another armed teacher, thinking the 1st teacher is the shooter.
Teacher kills a pupil by mistake after thinking they were about to shoot someone.
Teacher's gun is left unsecured, shooter uses it, teacher is vilified.
Teacher is unable/unwilling to respond as intended, becomes hate figure in American press. ruins their life and that of their family.
Teacher responds as intended and kills shooter, but has to live with taking a life for the rest of their days - BEST OUTCOME, REMEMBER

[The Dangerous Elk]

roachcoach said:

Not having an immediate solution is no reason to make the situation fking worse. And yes, arming teachers is guaranteed to make things worse.

Anyone who thinks that's a good idea needs their head examined.

But once again, he's successfully jangled the keys and everyone is off hook, line and sinker talking about the worlds dumbest idea as if it has credence instead of actually tackling the issue. I don't know what the NRA paid him, but it was worth it.

So can I call you ridiculous for not having an immediate solution ?

This is a conflagration of many many years of relaxing gun laws in the face of gun crime, many years of work will be needed to reduce this effect.
One side calls for the curtailing of the Presidential powers but at the same time calls for immediate action, the US system id fked as nothing can be done in the face of the divisions that exist.

If the schools are protected (more than one Deputy) with more force (Nat Guard ?) then will not the problem will transfer to the Church/Football games/Eat-Outs etc ?

[Byker28i]

Funkycoldribena said:

Not guaranteed then...

Nope - but then in life you know when several things are a bad idea, it's called common sense. That doesn't mean you should try them to see if your thought was wrong

[Byker28i]

hello - funky had a delete...

[_dobbo_]

The Dangerous Elk said:

If the schools are protected (more than one Deputy) with more force (Nat Guard ?) then will not the problem will transfer to the Church/Football games/Eat-Outs etc ?

So tackle the problem at the source. Ban assault rifles outright.

- But handguns were used in x massacre (So what? Ban assault rifles)
- But loads of people already have assault rifles (So what? Ban assault rifles)
- But guns aren't the problem, people are (So what? Ban assault rifles)
- But the criminals will still have guns (So what? Ban assault rifles)

The thinking seems to be banning these things won't work, so might as well not bother. This seems flawed thinking to me - it might not immediately remove all these weapons from circulation but that's no reason not to do it.

[Halb]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43164634

So there was a 'cop'. I think anyone with an ounce of sense would know this is what would happen.
even John McLain didn't wade into Asian Dawn supporters

Many issues here

US 'cops' aren't like UK cops with guns, no highly trained and controlled solitary training force, US policedom are 1,000's of fiefs, in many, any yo-yo can apply/get voted in and has access to military power weaponry, with scant or no training

US has a culture and religion of worshipping, guns, violence and might is right, western society in general is highly militarist and violent. From cartoons, to toys

violence is preferred over nudity in the USa and other places where religion has such a chokehold on the consciousness, USa being birthed from one of the most intolerant, bigoted and crazy subsets of religion.

USA is a racket, very powerful business runs itself in a free market, for profit at the detriment to it's people, it's fodder; high in this is the drugs industry who pushes for young bodies not developed to take drugs to control 'conditions.'

the religion of the gun + veneration of violence + corporate greed + drug industry + religious fkwittery

there is no answer to this, USA will get worse...unless voters mobilises to constantly vote the GoP out.

Anyone watch the John OLiver thing I posted, it shows how the NRA is more powerful than an end of level boss.

further thoughts
watched a programme once that talked about why there are so many crazy ppl in the USA...because they are the fruits of all the risk takers who travelled there, those genes x 10

even if guns are banned, there'll still be more guns than ppl in the usa

Joe Rogan on the Florida Shooting

https://youtu.be/PLshc4mmndc
16 mins

Edited by Halb on Friday 23 February 10:33

[Byker28i]

_dobbo_ said:

The Dangerous Elk said:

If the schools are protected (more than one Deputy) with more force (Nat Guard ?) then will not the problem will transfer to the Church/Football games/Eat-Outs etc ?

So tackle the problem at the source. Ban assault rifles outright.

- But handguns were used in x massacre (So what? Ban assault rifles)
- But loads of people already have assault rifles (So what? Ban assault rifles)
- But guns aren't the problem, people are (So what? Ban assault rifles)
- But the criminals will still have guns (So what? Ban assault rifles)

The thinking seems to be banning these things won't work, so might as well not bother. This seems flawed thinking to me - it might not immediately remove all these weapons from circulation but that's no reason not to do it.

I posted what I thought was a reasonable solution above

Allow single shot hunting rifles, ban semi automatics for general ownership, or put strict criteria in place for ownership
Ban open carry of rifles/semi autos
Computerised database of gun ownership that dealers immediately put details into, that all law agencies have immediate access to.
Gun ownership to be licenced, signed off by the local police, after a visit and interview
A rationalisation of gun laws across all states so all have the same rules for ownership
Secure storage of weapons when not in use.

That does nothing for illegal weapons, but they've got to start somewhere.
Computerising the records would help immensely. They've no idea how many weapons are out there or where they are, so at least make a start. Licencing gun ownership would also help accountability.

[roachcoach]

The Dangerous Elk said:

roachcoach said:

Not having an immediate solution is no reason to make the situation fking worse. And yes, arming teachers is guaranteed to make things worse.

Anyone who thinks that's a good idea needs their head examined.

But once again, he's successfully jangled the keys and everyone is off hook, line and sinker talking about the worlds dumbest idea as if it has credence instead of actually tackling the issue. I don't know what the NRA paid him, but it was worth it.

So can I call you ridiculous for not having an immediate solution ?

This is a conflagration of many many years of relaxing gun laws in the face of gun crime, many years of work will be needed to reduce this effect.
One side calls for the curtailing of the Presidential powers but at the same time calls for immediate action, the US system id fked as nothing can be done in the face of the divisions that exist.

If the schools are protected (more than one Deputy) with more force (Nat Guard ?) then will not the problem will transfer to the Church/Football games/Eat-Outs etc ?

Call me what you like, I don't care. But don't be surprised when people call out a fking ste idea as being fking ste.

[DMN]

Trump is saying Movies should have a rating system, to stop Kids watching violent films:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-maybe-they-hav...

[ferrisbueller]

Some actions escalate things, some do the opposite. You have powerful bodies arguing both sides with, at present, the escalation faction in power.

The armed service man who hasn't entered the building is now going to be absolutely hammered. He signed up to fulfil a duty and when it came down to putting his life on the line he found he couldn't do it. In all honesty, faced with the confrontation of hand gun vs AR15 I can't say I'd run in either. The AR15 was the first gun I ever fired and it was easy to be quick and accurate from a reasonable distance with zero experience oor skill. I couldn't get anywhere near that level of accuracy or range with a hand gun. If the guy with the AR15 is at the other end of a school corridor, or more than ten yards away IMO, you're done. Die trying to be a hero or wait for danger to pass and go home to your wife and kids. Horrible position to be in.

Escalation puts more guns out there. That can't be a good thing. And the shooters will just wear body armour anyway.

From the outside, the common sense approach is to take guns and ammo out of society. Good luck with that. I'd predict a lot of bloodshed.

It's a 52bn business and there are over 300 million guns already out there.
https://shootingindustry.com/u-s-firearms-industry...

[Byker28i]

I really hope we don't have a report saying the guard has now taken his life due to the vilification.

And yes, shooting an AR15 at 30 and 50 yards was easy to get a very good grouping. That'll be deadly at close quarters, and in this case brings it down to the surprise factor and which is easier to get on target, a handgun from a scared guard or a AR15 on the hands of a shooter who doesn't care.

He set off the fire alarm to get everybody out of classes. Initially there would be people everywhere.

There's an awful lot of assumptions that this guard could have done something.

[Byker28i]

Back to the Mueller investigation, he's ramping up the pressure on Gates, 32 further charges against him and Mannafort.
Mannafort remained in contact with Trump for months after he was sacked, so I suspect he's gambling on Trump pardoning him rather than plea bargaining as a witness.
Gates however doesn't have the finances or trumps ear, which is probably why Mueller is applying pressure.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/375183...